Game engine

[Sully]

I gave you an example of Crystal Palace vs Everton 27% vs 73%. So yes troll results do happen when you get superior possession. And look at the German league atm. Dortmund loosing to much weaker opponents.



In reply, saying that is not very accurate. Bayer Leverkusen are 3rd in the Bundesliga and a lot of people would agree they are a good solid team. Athletic Madrid? Your logic hints they are redundant, when in fact they are probably on par with the best teams in the world at the moment.

The Premier League isn't the most competitive, its just the best teams in the league are more inconsistent than their counterparts in other leagues. Please do not mix that up. If Chelsea were as consistent as Barca / Bayern / Roma / Juve / Real. I can assure you they would win the title every single season if people Like Man U / City / Arsenal were as inconsistent as they are now.

The Premier League is a prime example of Top Eleven logic. You can have the best team in your league, but inconsistency will cost you.

Teams like Leverkusen and Athletico Madrid come along and have a good season or two and then fade away, over the past few years instead of Leverkusen being up there it's been Schalke, Wolfsburg, Werder Bremen, Stuttgart and instead of Athletico it's been Valencia, Villarreal, Malaga and look at these clubs now. These clubs usually have a good long run because of , as in the case of Athletico, a great manager. When they lose Simeone they will fall back just like Valencia. These clubs in Germany and Spain have never had the staying power like Bayern, Dortmund, Barcelona or Real Madrid because these clubs are so much bigger than the rest.

As for the EPL I think you are being totally unfair on the other clubs to say its simply down to the big clubs being inconsistent. For me clubs like Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Everton, Spurs have slowly got stronger over the last 5 years to make it a more competitive league.

[SlickZ]

Teams like Leverkusen and Athletico Madrid come along and have a good season or two and then fade away, over the past few years instead of Leverkusen being up there it's been Schalke, Wolfsburg, Werder Bremen, Stuttgart and instead of Athletico it's been Valencia, Villarreal, Malaga and look at these clubs now. These clubs usually have a good long run because of , as in the case of Athletico, a great manager. When they lose Simeone they will fall back just like Valencia. These clubs in Germany and Spain have never had the staying power like Bayern, Dortmund, Barcelona or Real Madrid because these clubs are so much bigger than the rest.

As for the EPL I think you are being totally unfair on the other clubs to say its simply down to the big clubs being inconsistent. For me clubs like Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Everton, Spurs have slowly got stronger over the last 5 years to make it a more competitive league.

I agree teams like Everton, Liverpool, Spurs and so fourth are getting better. But Villa arn't one of those teams, so for Arsenal getting beat 1-3 at home isnt a good result, and Man City's away form. Yes the BPL was always defined by a " Top four " Which is more like a " Top 6 or 7 now " But that doesn't excuse the poor results vs teams outside of that.

On the Spanish / German front one thing you didn't mention is that a lot of those that were up there then fell down, they all for the most part suffered massive financial issues. And have been forced to sell their best players to balance their books. If those issues didn't arise they would be able to keep their best players and actually keep a steady ship. Athletico are a prime example, they have managed to grow steadily without selling their best players, they have always been a good team, and have did well in the Europa League many times over the past 10 years. Putting it all down to their manager is a little harsh, they have sold Falcao but they couldn't keep him due to 3rd party ownership. If they had full ownership of him, I have no doubt he would of stayed.

So yes in German and Spanish leagues it has fluctuated, but more down to money issues than anything else. Which the BPL doesn't suffer from as greatly due to TV rights being spilt on a more even scale than in those two other leagues.

[Sully]

I agree teams like Everton, Liverpool, Spurs and so fourth are getting better. But Villa arn't one of those teams, so for Arsenal getting beat 1-3 at home isnt a good result, and Man City's away form. Yes the BPL was always defined by a " Top four " Which is more like a " Top 6 or 7 now " But that doesn't excuse the poor results vs teams outside of that.

On the Spanish / German front one thing you didn't mention is that a lot of those that were up there then fell down, they all for the most part suffered massive financial issues. And have been forced to sell their best players to balance their books. If those issues didn't arise they would be able to keep their best players and actually keep a steady ship. Athletico are a prime example, they have managed to grow steadily without selling their best players, they have always been a good team, and have did well in the Europa League many times over the past 10 years. Putting it all down to their manager is a little harsh, they have sold Falcao but they couldn't keep him due to 3rd party ownership. If they had full ownership of him, I have no doubt he would of stayed.

So yes in German and Spanish leagues it has fluctuated, but more down to money issues than anything else. Which the BPL doesn't suffer from as greatly due to TV rights being spilt on a more even scale than in those two other leagues.

Yeah the money issues arise because they are so far behind the top 2 in their leagues that they can't sustain it for any longer than a couple of seasons, whereas in England the teams don't have the same money issues so it can be a more competitive league. The fact that in Germany and Spain it's the top 2 then the rest, in England it's the top 6 or 7 then the rest which makes it a better more competitive league.

My point is take the top two out of those three leagues and in England you would still have a really good competitive league whereas the other two would be a shadow of their leagues just now. They would be like the SPL(or whatever the hell it's called now) Rangers have been taken out and now the SPL can't even get a sponsor, so everyone has lost money and have been become much weaker. Even Celtic are suffering, they are losing all their big players and can't get the same quality to replace these players because no one will come. Even their fans have gone, when Rangers were there they would get nearly 60000 at home games, last Saturday they had less than 20000.

[SlickZ]

Yeah the money issues arise because they are so far behind the top 2 in their leagues that they can't sustain it for any longer than a couple of seasons, whereas in England the teams don't have the same money issues so it can be a more competitive league. The fact that in Germany and Spain it's the top 2 then the rest, in England it's the top 6 or 7 then the rest which makes it a better more competitive league.

My point is take the top two out of those three leagues and in England you would still have a really good competitive league whereas the other two would be a shadow of their leagues just now. They would be like the SPL(or whatever the hell it's called now) Rangers have been taken out and now the SPL can't even get a sponsor, so everyone has lost money and have been become much weaker. Even Celtic are suffering, they are losing all their big players and can't get the same quality to replace these players because no one will come. Even their fans have gone, when Rangers were there they would get nearly 60000 at home games, last Saturday they had less than 20000.

But that's it if you removed the top 2, the leagues would be more competitive, as they would be on more equal terms. The fact Barca and Real get separate tv deals than the rest of La Liga is purely down to past success. Seria A top teams used to be miles ahead of Real and Barca in revenue, but with CL success and the change of style they have grew massively. And to get those past success's they had to have consistency.

I do believe the German and Spanish leagues are ahead of the BPL in terms of skill and quality, but that is purely down to the upper teams in England failing to be their best every game, and when Barca arn't their best they still win, same for Bayern. Man City don't do that, neither do Arsenal / Liverpool / Man Utd and others.

[TypTex]

UnKnowledgeable? What I said was fact, you are denying bookmakers don't have palace favorites to go down? You even said that yourself.
Arrogance? I openly admitted Palace deserved their point and even probably the 3 points, arrogance would me saying Palace are pure garbage and didn't deserve a point to which I said neither.

But from how you reacted im assuming you have no logic or common sense, so enjoy going back to the championship.

Yes i'm calling you an unknowledgeable and arrogant.

When you say another team has no real quality players you aren't just trying to insult the other team but you are also insulting the players and the players countries of origin.

You want to go round insulting other clubs piss off back to your own club forum boards where you can spout as much crap about other clubs as you like and be safe in the knowledge you are around your own kind. When you come on mixed supporter forums you do NOT slag off other clubs.

Try being polite. YOU are letting down not just yourself but your club as well.

Palace are not a top club, never will be, but to say we have no quality players is just a complete disgrace.

You have let yourself and your club down with your small minded, unknowledgeable views.

Shame on you.

[TypTex]

Palace are lets be honest one of the smaller clubs in the prem, they don't have any real quality

http://forum.topeleven.com/suggestio...m-players.html

Gentleman posted the above link yesterday, wondering why some of South Africa's top players are not included in this game.

Maybe you want to explain to him slick why he's wrong? Why KG isn't a quality player, and why he's made a mistake including his name in his list of favourite South African footballers?

You seem to know a lot about our players slick to say they are not of any quality ... maybe also explain to the Aussies why Mile Jedinak isn't good enough for their World Cup squad?

Maybe explain how Glen Murray was the top scorer in the championship last year?

Maybe explain how Man Utd signed one of our players for 15 million last year?

Maybe explain how you know so much about our players to say they are not good quality players?

Or maybe you just like slagging off other clubs and players?

[Sully]

But that's it if you removed the top 2, the leagues would be more competitive, as they would be on more equal terms. The fact Barca and Real get separate tv deals than the rest of La Liga is purely down to past success. Seria A top teams used to be miles ahead of Real and Barca in revenue, but with CL success and the change of style they have grew massively. And to get those past success's they had to have consistency.

I do believe the German and Spanish leagues are ahead of the BPL in terms of skill and quality, but that is purely down to the upper teams in England failing to be their best every game, and when Barca arn't their best they still win, same for Bayern. Man City don't do that, neither do Arsenal / Liverpool / Man Utd and others.

On your first point that very argument has been made in Scotland that if you take the top 2 out the rest of the league would be more even and more competitive and therefore a better league. But they have taken just one of those teams out and it has had a major affect on the league for the worse. Like I said they can't get a sponsor for the league and fans just aren't interested so clubs lose money which makes them weaker.

On your second point...

You've just made my point for me. If Barcelona and Bayern don't have to be at their best to win games in their leagues but the top English clubs don't win their games when they are not at their best then that would suggest the lower teams in England are better than Germany and Spain.

The teams in England can take advantage of the big teams if the big teams are not at their best but in Germany and Spain the teams are that bad that they can't take advantage when teams like Barcelona and Bayern are not at their best.

[TypTex]

Lets try and keep respectful of other peoples teams and players.

We are all going to have different views about the game and its players on here.

We are entitled to speak against our own club, but lets try and be positive about other peoples clubs and their players.

Picking on and insulting other teams iand their players s simply not a nice thing to do.

When it comes to other members teams my thoughts are, be positive or be quiet.

[Sully]

Lets try and keep respectful of other peoples teams and players.

We are all going to have different views about the game and its players on here.

We are entitled to speak against our own club, but lets try and be positive about other peoples clubs and their players.

Picking on and insulting other teams iand their players s simply not a nice thing to do.

When it comes to other members teams my thoughts are, be positive or be quiet.

Does that include Brighton? Lol.

[TypTex]

Does that include Brighton? Lol.

Absolutely, definitely not. Never. Ever. Ever. and please don't swear on here. To hear that word ... ******ton so close to Christmas puts me right off my upcoming turkey

(Same applies to C****ton as well)

But to all other clubs it's Happy Christmas from me, and I hope it's an easy 9 Christmas points to whichever club you all support