Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 51
Like Tree76Likes

  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Team % Bonuses - Your favorite?

  1. #41
    Dreamer
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    466
    I had a lot of success today with possession bonus with my twin account against two much better opponents (I where down 10-15% in both match-ups) in the FA. They where a little weak at central midfield, only had 2 CM/DMCs per team, so with 3 and 4 respectively on my side I sat passing through the middle and had 14% possesssion bonus plus the 50% increase, which puts it at 21%, on my side. With 60-70% possession I dominated both games and got a win and a real troll tie where I gave up 2-1 in the 87's and 2-2 in the 90th on a FK...

    I think this is for sure the best way to play a better opponent that isn't overly strong at center midfield. You will have a good shot in any game if you can get 60+% possession. I have several times had a lot of success with it.

  2. #42
    Famous nash123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Svanberg View Post
    I had a lot of success today with possession bonus with my twin account against two much better opponents (I where down 10-15% in both match-ups) in the FA. They where a little weak at central midfield, only had 2 CM/DMCs per team, so with 3 and 4 respectively on my side I sat passing through the middle and had 14% possesssion bonus plus the 50% increase, which puts it at 21%, on my side. With 60-70% possession I dominated both games and got a win and a real troll tie where I gave up 2-1 in the 87's and 2-2 in the 90th on a FK...

    I think this is for sure the best way to play a better opponent that isn't overly strong at center midfield. You will have a good shot in any game if you can get 60+% possession. I have several times had a lot of success with it.
    But I think, there is one problem: What do you do, if opponent switch positions for 3 MCs oder 4 ML/C/R? Or uses another formation at 2nd leg?

    I beat some strong opponents this season and I rarly used possession-bonus. I mostly use condtion and attack. Maybe it's because I've a pretty good offensive, so I try to score more than my opponent.
    Maybe I had have won today at FA, if I took pessession bonus instead of attacking... but if you take look at the screenshot, my team had 49% possession with only 10 players...
    Al Svanberg likes this.

    Nasharak FC - Club Museum
    updates every new season
    I don't buy token.
    I don't manipulate the draw.

    retired

    League: 26x
    Champions League: 24x
    Cup: 20x

    Triple: 18x

    FA (Platinum)
    stats worthless because of
    exploiting and bug-weekend




  3. #43
    Pro ibangali's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    801
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Svanberg View Post
    Guys! How do you interpret Moi's explanations?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moi View Post
    Guys there's a misconception here. When a bonus is applied, it affects that area of the pitch, not individual player abilities/skills.

    So, let's say you have +8% defense. This means that during the game, your defense stats will be +8% higher than the would've been without it. Players' stats are exactly the same, but the global stats of their influence area goes up.

    Same happens when you watch a live match, your team possession goes up by +8%, but it doesn't individually modify your players' stats/skills.
    "Moi" correct me if I'm wrong please. I start a match with 10% bonuses (def+attack+poss+cond). Now if I activate "attack" bonus which comes 15% and rest are remain 10%. So if we look at my image then do you meant my team "global stats" :

    attack = 123.4 * 15% = 141.91

    poss = 114.6 * 10% = 126.06

    def = 100.8 * 10% = 110.88



    Team % Bonuses - Your favorite?-compare.jpg

    But I don't know how to calculate condition bonus. Anyway, "Moi" do you mean that team bonus (not individual) calculate as I calculate above during the match.

    Thanks
    Last edited by ibangali; 09-12-2016 at 07:01 AM.
    Al Svanberg likes this.

  4. #44
    Dreamer
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    466
    Quote Originally Posted by nash123 View Post
    But I think, there is one problem: What do you do, if opponent switch positions for 3 MCs oder 4 ML/C/R? Or uses another formation at 2nd leg?

    I beat some strong opponents this season and I rarly used possession-bonus. I mostly use condtion and attack. Maybe it's because I've a pretty good offensive, so I try to score more than my opponent.
    Maybe I had have won today at FA, if I took pessession bonus instead of attacking... but if you take look at the screenshot, my team had 49% possession with only 10 players...
    Yeah, to put it like this, this is especially a -- monster strategy -- if you face a player with less possession bonus than you to start with, from not attending or having less fans attending, and that doesn't adjust and match me at center midfield. I have not noticed that it does not kill me if I am overpowered on the wings, as long as I have an advantage in numbers at center midfield (DMC and MC, but AMC also helps).

    Like in an association game, lets say you have 10% possession bonus. That is trained up to 14% by another member. You use the 50% booster which puts you at 21%. You have home field, and one more association member is watching your game than the opponents game. You have an advantage at center field which gives you more possession. If the opponent only has 2 MCs or fewer, you can also use short passing to give you even more possession. Lets say your opponent at least doesn't use his 50% bumper for possession. You see where it is heading, even if you face someone with 20-40% more ability than you -- you can get a significant edge in possession. If you have a significant edge in possession, you always at least have a shot in a game. Right?

    So yeah, it can of course always be countered by a better player, I mean, he can always do what you are doing with possession and so forth. For sure. But my impression is still that many aren't doing that. They are probably a bit too confident when they are up that many % in ability. And its also not that easy to figure our exactly what happen, at least I might not have thought about it before. I mean, what is happening in the actual game for the player that face this? He is a better team, he creates some chances and normally at least get as many shots as me. The possession often ends up being maybe like 58-42 or 60-40 or something like that. I've seen all kind of reactions, but mostly it seems like people attack more and that is also not a good strategy, you can use counter against that so its probably better to use normal/defense against it.

    And if the draws in an association tournaments allow it, your association can also use it to give someone 4+4=8% extra in possession bonus, if not more. I mean 10+8=18% will give you a possession bonus of 28% when you use the 50% booster. 22% gives you 33%.

    The best success I have had with this strategy was against a Turkish association with a leader with 150% ability (the rest was around 90-105%, it was early in this season so I was at around 100% at the most...). My possession bonus was not trained up to 14%, it was only at 10%, but we all attended our games and only two from their side attended. This guy was probably used to dominate his opponents so he played 3N-2-1-3-1, I had 2 DMCs, 1 MC and 1 AMC. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have max bonuses. With short passing through the middle and a possession bonus of 5% (home field), 3 more fans watching giving me 6%, 10+5=15% from activating the bonus plus the unknown possession bonus I got from short passing through the middle and having 2 more players at center field, it gave me a possession advantage of 26% + X (short passing and more heads at center field) - whatever possession bonus he had, maybe like 6%. It felt like I had a good 30% edge, and instead of being dominated 60/40 I ended up with just under 70% in possession. Before that game, I considered gutting my team loaning its best players to my twin account because I was down so much in ability, instead I won 5-2...
    Last edited by Al Svanberg; 09-12-2016 at 09:45 AM.

  5.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #45
    Moi
    Moi is offline
    Addicted Moi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    683
    Quote Originally Posted by ibangali View Post
    "Moi" correct me if I'm wrong please. I start a match with 10% bonuses (def+attack+poss+cond). Now if I activate "attack" bonus which comes 15% and rest are remain 10%. So if we look at my image then do you meant my team "global stats" :

    attack = 123.4 * 15% = 141.91

    poss = 114.6 * 10% = 126.06

    def = 100.8 * 10% = 110.88



    But I don't know how to calculate condition bonus. Anyway, "Moi" do you mean that team bonus (not individual) calculate as I calculate above during the match.

    Thanks
    There are still misconceptions here, as increases are relative, nor absolutes. Exactly like when you get +8% possession from attending your matches. Doesn't mean you possession will go from 55% to 63%.

    It means your possession will be 8% better than without this boost, but that doesn't mean your final qualifications will be +8% (because it depends also on other factors and your rival's possession stats).

    Getting a 10% increase in an area of the game won't mean your team qualifications for this area will go exactly 10% up, it means they will be "10% better" in relative terms.

    Condition bonus means your players will use less condition than they would for this match.
    Al Svanberg and LeManiaque like this.

  6. #46
    Dreamer
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    466
    Quote Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos View Post
    That is very close to my theory I post in some threads , like
    Mytbusters #18-21
    http://forum.topeleven.com/top-eleve...-eleven-2.html
    is one of them.
    - Individuals skils don't matter
    - The three main categories is questionable how

    It doesn't make a different if we train and keep adding q in a player's skill like crossing and make him a corner specialist.
    We 're doing training, developing the 3 main categories and each one of them contributes to the three main categories of the team.
    There , among other factores who affect the calculation (game proccess), comes also the bonus to add some more.
    Yeah, I have been thinking a lot about this. I think in relation to the bolded part, Moi's explanation gives us a pretty good understanding, and I think three key facts can be drawn from it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Moi View Post
    You have your 11 players in the pitch. Some of them add more contribution to the Defense rating than others, ie, strikers don't contribute at all, and defenders contribute the most.
    Somehow, we don't know how, the ability of our team -- besides factors like the formation we use, bonuses and what not -- affects the outcome of a game. That is a sade assumption, at least when Tactician is not around...

    Confirmed fact 1: The total ability of your team matters.

    But we also as a fact learned something more. Not only does the total ability of your team value, it also matters if this ability is for example defensive. We get a "defensive rating" like Moi put it. For example, if someone just ran physical drills, his team would get a low defensive and offensive rating and a high physical rating, right? From this it must be safe to assume that a high offensive rating means that you perform better offensively. Right?

    So does this mean that it actually -- contrary to what you say -- that the individual creation of a player's ability matters when it comes to how that individual player performs? No, it does not confirm that, it don't confirm that that isn't the case either. It is still unclear, right? But, it confirms that the total offensive ability of a team impacts how the team will perform offensively, right? Correct me if I you think I am wrong!

    Hence:
    Confirmed fact 2: It matters if a players has high defensive/physical/offensive abilities. Maybe not on an individual level, but at least on a team level.

    And this is not all, we learned a third thing too! High defensive ability on a defender has a bigger impact than high defensive ability on a striker or AMC and so forth. Right? Moi say that straight out.

    So this adds another level. A team with a striker that has Defensive ability: 100; Physical ability: 50; Offensive ability: 50; and a Central Defender that has Defensive ability: 50; Physical ability: 50; Offensive ability 100 will -- perform worse -- than a team that has the opposite division, ie. a stirker with Defensive ability: 50; Physical ability: 50; Offensive ability: 1000; and a Central Defender that has Defensive ability: 100; Physical ability: 50; Offensive ability 50. Right? The high offensive ability on the striker will matter more than the high offensive ability on the Central Defender. That must be the only conclusion, right?

    So:
    Confirmed fact 3: How the ability of a player is divided over the categories Defense, Physical and Offense does matters.

    What I think is still unclear is two central questions:

    (1) does it matter how ability within a category is divided? Like, will a team with for example two strikers that has the shooting ability 100 and the passing ability 50 score on more shots than a team with two strikers that has the shooting ability 50 and the passing ability 100)? We don't know, but I don't think its far fetched that that would be the case.

    And to further complicate this, it should be pointed out that the answer to this question could be everything from No it does not matter to Yes it does matter but the impact in the end is marginal or even irrelevant because so many factors matters to Yes it does matter a lot.

    (2) does it matter -- on an individual level -- how the ability of a team in a certain area is divided. Like in short, if a team has two Strikers, X and Y, where striker X has the ability 100 all over the board and striker Y has the ability 50 all over the board, will striker X perform better in games than striker Y? I have seen some say that it doesn't matter and some say that it does. I don't know.

    What do you guys think about this?

  7. #47
    Pro ibangali's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    801
    Anyone using condition bonus? How does it work for you guys?

    It's not make very big difference for me. Without using it end of the match my players condition comes 70 to 75 (I always start match with 99). Last 6/7 match I use condition bonus (15%) on second half twice, 25 min & 10 min. End of the match my players condition comes 77 to 85.

  8. #48
    Famous
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    1,044
    ^^
    I like condition at the beginning if I'm not sure what will happen, if the other manager hasn't arrived but it's early (so I might need possession if they arrive but not before). It might also make switching to attack late in the game more effective since your players could be fresh. Don't know, obviously, but I do often score those late goals.
    Duncton likes this.

  9. #49
    Dreamer
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    452
    i have absolute belief that non of the bonus work if it really did you would see it in game animation but as all that is predetermined it has zero effect,had a phone call on my mobile during a game animation froze at the time of call went back to game and animation continued from exact time it froze, thought i could sub didn't work so no control over game

  10. #50
    Famous Ποσιδονας's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,941
    This

    Quote Originally Posted by Moi View Post
    There are still misconceptions here, as increases are relative, nor absolutes. Exactly like when you get +8% possession from attending your matches. Doesn't mean you possession will go from 55% to 63%.
    It means your possession will be 8% better than without this boost, but that doesn't mean your final qualifications will be +8% (because it depends also on other factors and your rival's possession stats).
    Getting a 10% increase in an area of the game won't mean your team qualifications for this area will go exactly 10% up, it means they will be "10% better" in relative terms.
    Condition bonus means your players will use less condition than they would for this match.
    and this
    @Jeeves :These days with my usual 8% Condition Bonus (Ye I hardly keep my bonuses at 10... Slacking off this season, meh. T_T), my guys barely drop in condition which gets me safely to the 2nd half where, after trying to figure out what my opponent ordered his team to do I decide to either go all out or be reserved and hold back as best as I can while trying to snipe a goal via some counterattack play.
    are the proofs that training bonus either is cosmetic or has so minimal effect that neither the adms can't identify it.
    @nikolgiorgos before long time explained his theory about the condition bonus.
    That it reduces the penalty from condition loss, not reduces the condition drop.

    And this is very easy to see during a game.
    The avg condition loss in an official 90' game without using High pressing or Man to man, is about 22%.
    Some players might loose 24%, some 20%.
    Many times I used @nik's method to observe this.
    I had an easy game and later an important game in Cup so I wanted to keep as possible high the condition of my players for the second game as I don't have a good 2nd squad.
    I used the condition bonus during all the match, 5 times I think and saw that condition loss was exactly the same as if not using that at all.
    I tried that many times and the result was the same every time.

    I 'm not sure if the condition bonus let the drop be 21% instead of 22% but even that has a tiny effect for the game play or using that to save condition of players for a next game or training.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast