A WTF match which needs an explanation to rest in peace

[Tyltyl]

I think, you are heavily overestimating the impact of whatever you do on the game. For instance, I have yet to see a game where upon my changing from hard defending to hard attacking (or anything in between) would have any visible effect on the movements of the players. I'm pretty sure that all those settings that we are allowed to specify, are no more than cosmetics for our entertainment.

Equally, everybody who played for a while knows that once in a while there will be a game where the players will just not perform at all. One would think that this is exactly what had to be reflected in their morale, by the very definition of the morale, but it's not the case.

Equally, if you look closely, there's no much relation even between the condition and the result. Again, I'm pretty sure that once in a while everybody has a case where you just did not have time to get to the team between two games on the same day, so the players all had 60-70% condition, but still beat an equal team.

Or, when the player who "broke the leg" and was "stretched from the field", if not replaced, keeps playing just fine, and even occasionally scores. In fact, if anything, you may even notice some boost for your team.

We sure like to tell ourselves that our movements and preparations and training and morale and formations and watching the game and bonus do matter, but I'm pretty sure that if someone ran statistics on big numbers of games, it would be revealed that in the end, they don't. Or maybe some negligible effect.

That's exactly what I think. Try to change "focus passing" from "down both flanks" to "through the middle" and you won't see any change. The player would still go down both flanks trying to cross the ball tenths times a match without getting a single header. Statistically in a football match you would see a lot more headers in attack than in a Top Eleven game. Occasionally, out of 10 games, I can get a cross right and score after that.
This season I tried to train more crossing and heading, without any perceivable difference.

Then you play association and I'm tired to tell this everytime. I go full morale and full condition, using counter formation on a much lower quality team, and still getting a defeat or a draw.
Full condition doesn't make any change, morale neither, quality...LOL, doesn't change ****. Counter formation? Try to mess up your formation, you would actually see the players in the position you put them, but after a second they would still go wherever they are expected to go covering all the field.

All this makes me think what you said, they are just cosmetics and the real result is calculated over something else we won't really ever know. Probably is a mix of ball possession, positioning and I don't know what.
If you watch every troll result you would notice that the shot efficiency is almost perfect on the winning team.

[funqer]

That's exactly what I think. Try to change "focus passing" from "down both flanks" to "through the middle" and you won't see any change. The player would still go down both flanks trying to cross the ball tenths times a match without getting a single header. Statistically in a football match you would see a lot more headers in attack than in a Top Eleven game. Occasionally, out of 10 games, I can get a cross right and score after that.
This season I tried to train more crossing and heading, without any perceivable difference.

Then you play association and I'm tired to tell this everytime. I go full morale and full condition, using counter formation on a much lower quality team, and still getting a defeat or a draw.
Full condition doesn't make any change, morale neither, quality...LOL, doesn't change ****. Counter formation? Try to mess up your formation, you would actually see the players in the position you put them, but after a second they would still go wherever they are expected to go covering all the field.

All this makes me think what you said, they are just cosmetics and the real result is calculated over something else we won't really ever know. Probably is a mix of ball possession, positioning and I don't know what.
If you watch every troll result you would notice that the shot efficiency is almost perfect on the winning team.

Thats absolutely true... and the GK is always MOM... but ok, if any of those mentioned doesn't matter any more, why should we bother to make a good team (120% and +)? we play with a 85-90% quality and beat any team. because that's what i get so far with all those surprise results...

[gizzmo]

Thats absolutely true... and the GK is always MOM... but ok, if any of those mentioned doesn't matter any more, why should we bother to make a good team (120% and +)? we play with a 85-90% quality and beat any team. because that's what i get so far with all those surprise results...

Everyone has noticed that indeed, from time to time, you win games that you should not. And the other way round too. But do not make confusion between what "you see" in the live animation and what happens in the heart of the game engine. I agree that animations are mostly cosmetic but I completely disagree about the fact that tactical changes have no effect. Switching 4-5-1V from flanks to middle DO have an effect even if it's not shown by animations. But there are things that animations will show you. For instance, play with normal or offensive settings: every time you'll see your players starting their attacking moves from THEIR side, you are 100% certain that they'll eventually lose the ball and that you are in danger. If you go for defensive, you'll see dangerous (sometimes successful) attacking moves starting from your side.

[Tyltyl]

Everyone has noticed that indeed, from time to time, you win games that you should not. And the other way round too. But do not make confusion between what "you see" in the live animation and what happens in the heart of the game engine. I agree that animations are mostly cosmetic but I completely disagree about the fact that tactical changes have no effect. Switching 4-5-1V from flanks to middle DO have an effect even if it's not shown by animations. But there are things that animations will show you. For instance, play with normal or offensive settings: every time you'll see your players starting their attacking moves from THEIR side, you are 100% certain that they'll eventually lose the ball and that you are in danger. If you go for defensive, you'll see dangerous (sometimes successful) attacking moves starting from your side.

Live animation may be just cosmetics, but if I change tactics the result still doesn't change and then live animation is just useless compared to other game. If it's there I'd like to be useful to actually see how my team is performing and should be faithful (well mostly at least) to what is actually happening.
What you say about normal or offensive mentality usually happen anyway from what I experienced, and if defensive gives more chances of starting effective attacking moves, then why does attacking mentality even exist? If I need a comeback and use attacking, I lose the ball more. I should have gone defensive. Wow, fat chance! I also conceded goals on counter attack while playing defensive which is nonsense. I needed to score a few goals today with my 4-5-1V and changed tactics to no effect (see my last opened thread).
Either live animation has to be more faithful, or the game engine should be more transparent and give more feedback if you are doing good, because if he generates crap on random without refleting your decision then we are just pretty much playing blind. The AM is also pretty much useless on giving hints..
I've seen too much crap to accept anything coming from this game (nothing personal on you )

[gizzmo]

What you say about normal or offensive mentality usually happen anyway from what I experienced, and if defensive gives more chances of starting effective attacking moves, then why does attacking mentality even exist? If I need a comeback and use attacking, I lose the ball more. I should have gone defensive. )

Again, I'm not saying that defensive play gives more chances: just that animations will show something different. That's it. The truth for me is: whatever the animation shows, the important thing remains the settings. But at least, that one thing gives me a piece of information about my oppo.
I agree that animations have plenty of room for improvement though !!

[Cloverfield]

Yes animations is a bit of **** right now.

But it is true that you can retrieve some info from it.

For example you can easily see if your oppo plays defensive mentality, as his defense and all players will be way too deep close to penalty area.

Also you can see how you lose chances, so when you miss opportunities that for other games are a sure goal, you can close the app as you are going to get trolled

[Tyltyl]

Yes animations is a bit of **** right now.

But it is true that you can retrieve some info from it.

For example you can easily see if your oppo plays defensive mentality, as his defense and all players will be way too deep close to penalty area.

Also you can see how you lose chances, so when you miss opportunities that for other games are a sure goal, you can close the app as you are going to get trolled

I like the fact that now what before was a sure goal, now it becomes a missed opportunity. Before when you saw a fast counter-attack it was a 100% goal, now the player can even miss to an empty goal. Which is nice, because it was boring to see actions and already knowing how they would have ended.
Aside from that, the simulation is total BS compared to other games that I tried these days. Since the game engine wasn't very clear to start with, with many flaws and unclear points, maybe it wasn't good to implement a "live" simulation if it's so misleading. We make tactical choice without a real validation, the commentary is also so-so. The only way to unterstand if your choices are working is to see if you are scoring without conceding (aka: winning = ok), and also if everything seems to be on your side, it's not and you lose badly without knowing why. We should be able to see if our player are having trouble getting through the defense, if we should keep pushing on the side or through the center and finding spaces, if our defense is not holding or not.
The AM is total bullcrap, he suggests to stop tackling hard even if you are winning 7-0 without conceding a free kick. Set "hard attacking" and 3 ST and he says to be more offensive. Stats are usually off and has been covered in several threads.
Really, I think we miss that visual (or textual) validation on how our teams are holding. Instead with time and experience, I see that playing counterattack is useless, you will still score no matter how, maybe even on counterattack. I will stop playing counter formations since they just don't work right and mean nothing (or close to). In association is just a random mess of random results between strong a weak teams.
There are so many unclear points in this game, that for me now after years is pretty much useless to talk about, because everyone has a personal idea and you would get your own with different results. You never get an official explanation. Do SA really work? Would a player be the same without a SA? Do SA depend on skills? Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I have CK and FK specialists trained just for that and they just suck. The only ones that seem to work are the defensive ones, but I will never be sure if the players would be as good without.

Yeah, I sound bored, I gave this game so many chances and it's missing many of them, especially lately.
It's not a matter of "I wanna always win", but "I want to know what works and what not".

[Cloverfield]

@tytyl

not boring at all. You are talking about the main flaw of the game.

I does not give you enough feedback for the game in order to get better and dont make the same mistakes again.

But is this a flaw/poor feature implementation? Or is it on purpose, because less info you have on your side the easier you can get trolled unable to do anything.

For sure Nordeus does not want a player that can win forever.. because if he learns how to do so there is no reason to invest real money on the game.
Nordeus will always create a flaw in your team, making it vulnerable from time to time, so you think "oh **** my strikers are so out of form I cannot score, time to spend some tokens to bring some fresh blood"
Realistic, isn't it?

[madflo19]

@tytyl

not boring at all. You are talking about the main flaw of the game.

I does not give you enough feedback for the game in order to get better and dont make the same mistakes again.

But is this a flaw/poor feature implementation? Or is it on purpose, because less info you have on your side the easier you can get trolled unable to do anything.

For sure Nordeus does not want a player that can win forever.. because if he learns how to do so there is no reason to invest real money on the game.
Nordeus will always create a flaw in your team, making it vulnerable from time to time, so you think "oh **** my strikers are so out of form I cannot score, time to spend some tokens to bring some fresh blood"
Realistic, isn't it?

Well pointed Clover,I strongly agree with you,they don't even tell us when the league is drawn,what if we can see that for the last seasons the league is done 1st day of the season.

[Iridensys]

This game is broken
Yesterday in Cup match at the minute 28 sent off my MC. Fortunatly in the first leg I won 3-0.
Today in CL match at the same minute 28 sent off my MC.
My tackling is normal, and in league I haven't any red cards.

Nordeus are trolling us; it is totally useless prepare match with training and counter formation when you see this ridicolous things.

Two red cards in the two cups, at the same minute.

They want that we spent money to see this absurdities????

I understand so many people leave the game after some seasons (I'm at level 7).

They have modified the auction but there are many other important things to improve, not the auction.

Not good