Attachment 128829
Yet another troll result... many of you watch real football?
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Attachment 128829
Yet another troll result... many of you watch real football?
Yes, draw and lost to weaker teams do happen in real football. But did Osasuna Coach show up? Did they train before the match?Quote:
Originally Posted by NUNO FC
Here, most of us don't complain about losts to weaker teams but losts to abandon weaker teams or oppo strategies changed without manager.
hmm, maybe we need to define what is a weaker team and what an abandoned team.
I wouldn't say that a team with q above 70-75% is an abandoned team, even if the manager isn't present in many games.
It is possible that 70 or even 80% teams are abandonned whose managers don't login. I also met some team with 50-60% quality but active or semi-active.
I got my 3 troll of the season. Given the terrible playing since the last update, I expected a tough game against a team 14% weaker and when I watched the game, I couldn't believe what I saw. I couldn't get a single shot off, my team gave the ball away as soon as they had it. I thought I was watching a game where I was 40% weaker than the other team. This was in the league where both teams used the same tactics and same players. The only difference is that he was 8% weaker the first time. I basically got creamed 3-1. Is it me or has the game gotten worse since the last update, with unrealistic stores and good teams suddenly not knowing how to play. I have played other games before and was disappointed when I had 10 shots on goal to his 1 and he would tie 1-1. Now, in the last for season, I have been losing or drawing against teams who dominate me, despite me being between 15-30% stronger. What is happening?
I think you missed the point Lucian was trying to make. The issue is that the game is advertised as a simulation where you get to take control of a team and play out the game, but in reality, some games, you pretty much lose control and the engine just makes your team play like rubbish. If this is against a 50% weaker team, you might still win 1-0 (ex. a 110% team plays against a 40% team and only scores 1 goal), if it is against a 60%-75% team, you might draw with the other team scoring the one shot they got on goal, but against a relatively strong team 80%+, you lose and your team is unrecognizable.Quote:
Originally Posted by gogs67
Also, please don't take this the wrong way but your statement that "you can't always expect to win" is nonsense. Given the number of people who actively complain about trolls and quit the game because of them, this is obviously a problem. The reason this is an issue is because people care about their team and want to play well. Your suggestion implies that you should just take it and accept the broken system, the same way people should accept a bug breaking video game or an operating system that crashes regularly. Indeed, people do get to the point you describe, where they don't care anymore and accept the losses.... it is called stopping the game.
At this point, you were doomed to lose, regardless of what you did and how you prepared. This is plain out poor mechanics and destroys the game. I am with Lucian on this one. It is ridiculous going into a season where (unless you have gamed the system to only play against weaker teams) you are PREDETERMINED to play like rubbish for 2-7 games. If this happens to be against good teams, then you lose the league, the CL or the CUP. At this point, you prepare your team and just hope you don't get the bad rolls on the important games.
Agreed, this is still a player who built a squad. However, if they never attend games and are 20%-25% lower than the opposition, they should still lose. Similarly, a 40% team is obviously abandoned and they should lose heavily against teams 40%+.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos
Trolls do happen in real football..... However, (1) Osasuna isn't 25% weaker than Barcelona, (2) this doesn't happen 2-7 times a season, (3) Osasuna didn't actually win and (4) Lionel Messi, Luis Suarez and Ousmane Dembele were out, making the Barcelona squad significantly weaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by NUNO FC
But if it is to imitate real football there wouldn't be rest packs, morale packs or injury packs :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Berlitz
And Ossassuna is more than 25% weaker than Barça please have intelectual honesty and improve your tactics, I'm not a top manager and I rarely have troll results
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I don't think it is intellectually dishonest to say Osasuna isn't 25% weaker than Barcelona when 3 of their players are aren't their star players and the team is overall in the process of being rebuilt. When you get into the top flight in Europe's major leagues, I don't think there are many teams that are a quarter weaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by NUNO FC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max McClean
Max, first, I wanted to thank you for your wishes. It can be helpful to have support in the community to the randomness of the game. As a follow up on my game and to show the ridiculousness of the engine, I won my second leg.
I lost my first leg 4-1 on his field. I had 63% possessions yet we both shot 21 shots and he got 12 on target against my 7. My GK made 8 saves, which means my defenders didn't block a single shot.
Today, however, with the same team (111% vs 100%), I had 67% possession, 25 shots to his 8, 13 on target to his 4. He got a penalty and scored. End result: I won 7-1. :-/
First time I got trolled on leg 1 and then trolled the other team on leg 2.
Congrats. It happened to me several time in Cup or CL but never with a high score like yours. So, in long term, the game is more or less fair since everyone get troll. But I prefer a non-troll game engine. For now, when I defeat a strong opponent, I don't have a feeling that I did well, it just a good day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucian1986
I couldn't agree with you more. Everyone gets trolled, but because it is random, it ruins all games because it could have just been a good day. Also, to go from 4-1 to 1-7 is somewhat ridiculous in my book.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandef
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And you say that based on what, here is some actual info to support this duscussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucian1986
Acording to the site Transfermarkt Barcelona's squad is woth about 1,15 Bilion € (the second after Real Madrid) and Ossasuna squad is woth 42,05 Milion € (the second less valuable) you can check this here https://www.transfermarkt.com/primer...wettbewerb/ES1
Still think Barcelona isn't 25% stronger even without 3 players?
Although I didn't say that they were, only that it wasn't dishonest to say that they were, I still believe they are approximately 25% weaker. In your analysis, you comparing apples and oranges. The nominal value of a squad isn't equivalent to squad quality as the equivalency between both metrics is relative.Quote:
Originally Posted by NUNO FC
1. You can buy a player for a lot of money and he can be a flop, so new squad members values aren't necessarily reflective of quality.
2. Star players have hyper inflated values because more teams want them, thereby inflating the value of the player. This is a premium paid for the very best, even if the very best is only marginally better.
3. Player value is, in part, based on quality and potential/years. Antoine Griezman (130 million) isn't almost three times better than Luis Suarez (50 million). Rather, Griezman is worth more in part because he is 28 and Suarez is 32. Therefore, the value of a player in a give season is very different from the actual value of the player overall.
4. You only have 11 players on the field, which wouldn't account for the depth of Barcelona's team because some very expensive players aren't playing.
5. If one assumed equivalencies between squad quality and value, then (A) you would be saying that Getafe is much weaker than Barcelona since the squad worth 151,20 million euros, yet Getafe finished 5th of the 2018-19 series and (B) you would have expected Madrid to win with a squad value of 1.19 billion euros, yet they finished 3 with 7pts ahead of Valencia, which has a squad value of less than half a million.
6. Lower quality teams are more likely to use youngsters who have quality but aren't correctly valued and older players who are at the end of their careers and therefore have relatively low values.
7. Newly promoted squads tend to have lower valuations because the players aren't necessarily well know, which naturally affects their value.
My conclusion, which is merely an opinion, is based on football results and the differences you can see in clashes against truly weaker sides (i.e. in the first rounds of the Cup). A more apt comparison would be team races. Teams that are in the same division/semi-finals don't usually have times that are 25% more than the winner.
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What is the context? Was this your game for the CUP?Quote:
Originally Posted by Max McClean
Yes it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucian1986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max McClean
Nicely played. It looks like this will be a tough season.
I think I won my league already. I have 51pts and the 2nd placed team has 33pts.
It Certainly will be a tough fight until the end. I have a lot of tough potential matchups soon. I hope I can pull through. 2nd play third on Saturday so If I win my next three games That could be it. The best result for me out of that game would be a draw. If that happens and I win my 2 games I will be 4 points clear of these guys. I still have to play them unfortunately and those matches will decide my entire season. Oh as well as my CL Quarter Final First Leg is in a couple of hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucian1986
(All time top eleven record/singature)
Played 736 Won 614 Drew 54 Lost 68
PPG 2.58.
Goals Scored: 2429
Goals Conceded: 402
Trophies: 13
League Winners: 8x Runner Up 8x
Champions League Winners: 0x Runner Up: 3x
Super League Winner: 2x
Cup Winner: 3x Runner Up: 2x
Super Cup Winner: 0
Good luck with the CL. I won my bought 3-0 at home. It was kind of surprise since it appeared as though the opponent paid for scouted players (3 players were full red stars, whereas the rest were 5 star players)Quote:
Originally Posted by Max McClean
Given your stats, it looks like you play defensive. You have taken almost no goals in 1000 games!
Yes I do play defensive I just have a good few players back and a strong goalkeeper along with a front three who has scored about 200 goals in 80 matches between them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucian1986
My tactics would be Hard Defending
Passing would be through the middle, my passing style is mixed, then I would force counter attacks
I have a change between a low and high press when needed
My tackling style is normal ( obviously to not risk conceding free kicks in dangerous areas while also having a tough defensive structure)
Then my marking is Man to man.
And I force offside trap.
And I would agree my defence is strong. In a normal season let’s say 50 games. I would concede an average of about 25-30 goals in that time. While making 28-30 clean sheets.
My average goals Conceded Per Game is around 0.54.
And my scoring rate is about 3.3.
I always like to have a nice cushion in defence while still scoring 2-5 goals in most matches.
Ok Lucian First leg is complete and it was a 1-1 draw. We were equal teams so a fair result. We were that bit stronger but still an okay result for us
However we had 58-42 possession
Shots 18-11
Shots on target 5-3
Shots efficiency 20-33
1-1 score
I would say it is a minor troll but not that much of one.
Nice. I was hoping to hear better news. What did the opposition play?Quote:
Originally Posted by Max McClean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucian1986
Well first They played a 4-2-3-1.
They opened the scoring and they played defensive I switched to normal and we got a goal from a corner. I then decided to not be risky and play for the draw, they played a defensive low press and got a red card. So that is it. Obviously the second leg is tomorrow. So I will update you on that soon.
@Max McClean if you want to write the story of your team, start a new thread at Teams showcase section .
Let us read here some good classic troll games :p
Last few days I've trooled two playeres does it count too?
I guess when you are on the winner's side, it is not counted as troll. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by NUNO FC
There are so many understandable complaints about troll results and related things but you will rarely see someone complaining when his team is the one that trolled others and came out as the winner.
So true, today i had a klash 113% vs 113% I ended up winning 6-0 and substituting the 3 top players to spare them of a possible yellow card, yesterday 4-1 victory over a side 125%Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactician
I've learned a lot in this forum, everybody can reduce to the minimum this so called troll results which are the spice of football if you came to think of it, its the sport where the last has the bigger chances of defeating the worse!
I beat a 22% better team 4-1 a year ago which I feel was troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactician
Well... beating a stronger team by a large score or losing versus a weaker team by a large score may also not be troll results as such. A result can be considered to be a troll one if the manager on the losing side managed his team properly but lost to a much weaker team that had no management; like there is no other valid explaination why such a bad result happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max McClean
Feels like the trolling has gone up lately. What is happening? I have played 480 games, lost 21 times and 5 of those losses came in the last week against teams that were 15-35% weaker. Every time, I get some moronic comment "They really impressed", "We did everything but score", "We had a bad day out there", etc...
Yes. I trolled a team 7-1 after they beat me 4-1. A troll occurs when the result is ridiculous in light of the quality of the teams and whether the team is being managed. For this reason, a result of 8-0 when both teams are similar in quality and both are managed is a troll.
For me, these are typical troll results:
- An abandoned team that is 20%+ lower in quality wins or draw
- An abandoned team that is 40%+ lower in quality loses by less than 2 goals
- An actively managed team that is between 10-20% lower in quality wins by more than 1 goal
- An actively managed team that is between 10% lower in quality and 10% higher in quality wins by more than 4 goals.
The hallmarks of a troll result:
- the opponent barely gets a shot on target but the goals per shot on target are 80%+
- a 15%+ weaker team has approximately 33% possession but has almost the same number of shots on target and shots as the better team.
New updates, more rubbish from Nordeus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berlitz
An active 10-20% weaker team can win by 1 goal or more if the stronger opponent had many of the other factors against him. For example, if the opponent got a decent fraction of his tactics wrong and top of that he got a bad roll of the dice. That will be not be a troll as 20% quality advantage is not expected to overcome the bad effects of the other 2 factors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucian1986
Maybe the game is significantly more about luck these days as compared to 3-4 years ago, and hence why more unexpected results happen. They reduced the complexity in the calculation match outcomes maybe to reduce CPU and RAM loads on servers, and hence cut operating costs.
The assumption is that if you are losing and much stronger, you would change your tactics. A bad roll of the dice is a troll in the making.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactician
Yes, it is a troll if they set the total % effect that random variables have on match outcomes too high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucian1986
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