The result of each game : is it mathematical or just random ?

[nikolgiorgos]

I was trying to understand the role of luck (random effect) in TE with my own way

https://forum.topeleven.com/top-elev...op-eleven.html

[Tyltyl]

Many seasons ago I lost a cup semifinal to a weaker team, on full condition and full morale (Nordeus confirmed that preparation is just cosmetic), using a counter formation, a winning bonus and watching the game.
Apparently it wasn't enough to win.

- If the preparation is just cosmetic, you can just forget it, it won't matter towards the result, right?
- Ok, try using a counter formation, but you still lose. So this doesn't matter, maybe it's something else.
- Maybe it's the tactics? Whatever you use, you won't see a result on screen, because the simulation doesn't reflect the real game, so you don't know what the **** you are actually doing.
- Many people lose against weaker teams, so quality isn't the only important part, I guess.
- Maybe it's a mix of everything? Yeah, maybe, but if we look again about my example above none of this mattered.

I would say it's a mix of numbers mashed together, but in a retarded way
I only use 1 formation, maybe I mix it up a little sometimes, always on defensive and high pressing and usually I win everytime except a few time when the games decides to **** you.

But here's my take:
Whatever you do it doesn't really matter. Probably possession is the only thing that actually works and is active towards the result, because you can see a change in it when you make a change in the formation and in the passing style. It's also more linked to shots on target than we think and it's what generates the final results in a very simplicistic way.
Sometimes troll results happen when your opponents has low possession but still scores, maybe the engine calculates a ratio over this percentage because they don't want to make it too unfair and still give an opportunity to a weaker team.
Example: more possession = more scoring opportunity (which is fair and realistic), but it gives a chance to the team with a lower possesion in order to compensate.

A few days ago I lost against a weaker team, 2nd in my league because he had a lot of friends watching, I lost all my bonus possession and he won 4-1. In the first leg I won 1-2 the same way. He had a lot more possession, so the game showed only his plays, except a few opportunities where I scored and also maybe balanced to my quality.
I also explains why I keep winning with the same formation, because it works well with high possession. The only games I lost this season (3) where because posession was in favor of my opponent (lost 4-1) or actually more balanced (lost 2-1 both times).

[girl gooner]

Many seasons ago I lost a cup semifinal to a weaker team, on full condition and full morale (Nordeus confirmed that preparation is just cosmetic), using a counter formation, a winning bonus and watching the game.
Apparently it wasn't enough to win.

- If the preparation is just cosmetic, you can just forget it, it won't matter towards the result, right?
- Ok, try using a counter formation, but you still lose. So this doesn't matter, maybe it's something else.
- Maybe it's the tactics? Whatever you use, you won't see a result on screen, because the simulation doesn't reflect the real game, so you don't know what the **** you are actually doing.
- Many people lose against weaker teams, so quality isn't the only important part, I guess.
- Maybe it's a mix of everything? Yeah, maybe, but if we look again about my example above none of this mattered.

I would say it's a mix of numbers mashed together, but in a retarded way
I only use 1 formation, maybe I mix it up a little sometimes, always on defensive and high pressing and usually I win everytime except a few time when the games decides to **** you.

But here's my take:
Whatever you do it doesn't really matter. Probably possession is the only thing that actually works and is active towards the result, because you can see a change in it when you make a change in the formation and in the passing style. It's also more linked to shots on target than we think and it's what generates the final results in a very simplicistic way.
Sometimes troll results happen when your opponents has low possession but still scores, maybe the engine calculates a ratio over this percentage because they don't want to make it too unfair and still give an opportunity to a weaker team.
Example: more possession = more scoring opportunity (which is fair and realistic), but it gives a chance to the team with a lower possesion in order to compensate.

A few days ago I lost against a weaker team, 2nd in my league because he had a lot of friends watching, I lost all my bonus possession and he won 4-1. In the first leg I won 1-2 the same way. He had a lot more possession, so the game showed only his plays, except a few opportunities where I scored and also maybe balanced to my quality.
I also explains why I keep winning with the same formation, because it works well with high possession. The only games I lost this season (3) where because posession was in favor of my opponent (lost 4-1) or actually more balanced (lost 2-1 both times).

Nice ! Although I wrote to support and they replied "Possession NEVER won a game "(Sic)

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[Spartan117]

Many seasons ago I lost a cup semifinal to a weaker team, on full condition and full morale (Nordeus confirmed that preparation is just cosmetic), using a counter formation, a winning bonus and watching the game.
Apparently it wasn't enough to win.

- If the preparation is just cosmetic, you can just forget it, it won't matter towards the result, right?
- Ok, try using a counter formation, but you still lose. So this doesn't matter, maybe it's something else.
- Maybe it's the tactics? Whatever you use, you won't see a result on screen, because the simulation doesn't reflect the real game, so you don't know what the **** you are actually doing.
- Many people lose against weaker teams, so quality isn't the only important part, I guess.
- Maybe it's a mix of everything? Yeah, maybe, but if we look again about my example above none of this mattered.

I would say it's a mix of numbers mashed together, but in a retarded way
I only use 1 formation, maybe I mix it up a little sometimes, always on defensive and high pressing and usually I win everytime except a few time when the games decides to **** you.

But here's my take:
Whatever you do it doesn't really matter. Probably possession is the only thing that actually works and is active towards the result, because you can see a change in it when you make a change in the formation and in the passing style. It's also more linked to shots on target than we think and it's what generates the final results in a very simplicistic way.
Sometimes troll results happen when your opponents has low possession but still scores, maybe the engine calculates a ratio over this percentage because they don't want to make it too unfair and still give an opportunity to a weaker team.
Example: more possession = more scoring opportunity (which is fair and realistic), but it gives a chance to the team with a lower possesion in order to compensate.

A few days ago I lost against a weaker team, 2nd in my league because he had a lot of friends watching, I lost all my bonus possession and he won 4-1. In the first leg I won 1-2 the same way. He had a lot more possession, so the game showed only his plays, except a few opportunities where I scored and also maybe balanced to my quality.
I also explains why I keep winning with the same formation, because it works well with high possession. The only games I lost this season (3) where because posession was in favor of my opponent (lost 4-1) or actually more balanced (lost 2-1 both times).

Possession isn't a reliable stat to read the Game. More possession is never equal to more opportunities. Your scoring opportunity is dependent on the meter at the bottom of the screen in a live animation, the animation would never show your team attack if the meter isn't in your favor. This meter is more dependent on your formation and orders than it is on possession. For instance, if you set a defensive/ counter-attack strategy against a stronger opponent even if the opponent has 65% possession it doesn't matter, if the game engine favors your tactic over his own the animation will give you more scoring opportunities. A better stat to keep tabs on a live match is shots on target both for and against, and how many of those shots forced the goalie into making a save

[Tyltyl]

Possession isn't a reliable stat to read the Game. More possession is never equal to more opportunities. Your scoring opportunity is dependent on the meter at the bottom of the screen in a live animation, the animation would never show your team attack if the meter isn't in your favor. This meter is more dependent on your formation and orders than it is on possession. For instance, if you set a defensive/ counter-attack strategy against a stronger opponent even if the opponent has 65% possession it doesn't matter, if the game engine favors your tactic over his own the animation will give you more scoring opportunities. A better stat to keep tabs on a live match is shots on target both for and against, and how many of those shots forced the goalie into making a save

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but opportunities come exaclty out of that and I partially agree with you except for one thing.
I always play defensive and counter attack and I have a lot of possession in my favor everytime, but when I played against this team which is weaker, he got a lot of bonus possession out of friends watching up to +15% in his favor (at my home with me watching!). It was enough for him to get 55% possession, 7 shots and 4 goals.

[USARABAT]

you guys should really read this http://www.iaees.org/publications/jo...er-matches.pdf

it only gives you a small idea about the programming of online soccer games ...

there is much more complicated algorithm than what you can imagine...

I lost yesterday against a weaker team , i had 15 % bonus ... he wasn't watching ....

I don't believe in what's so called "troll results" ... I believe math and physics algorithm ...

once you and I guys learn more of how the programmers wrote the equations (Secrets) , more we avoid surprise defeats and do better ...

[pcmacdaniel]

you guys should really read this http://www.iaees.org/publications/jo...er-matches.pdf

it only gives you a small idea about the programming of online soccer games ...

there is much more complicated algorithm than what you can imagine...

I lost yesterday against a weaker team , i had 15 % bonus ... he wasn't watching ....

I don't believe in what's so called "troll results" ... I believe math and physics algorithm ...

once you and I guys learn more of how the programmers wrote the equations (Secrets) , more we avoid surprise defeats and do better ...

The link you provided doesn't work (or the firewall is blocking it). I click it and I get this screen.



Second, by online soccer game, what is the author of the article referring too? A facebook/google application created by a small company or a massive corporation that produced games for XBox/Playstation? The nordeus game engine is an 8-9 year old computer program, written by a company whose programmers can't produce one update without bugging the game. I'm skeptical that this is a complicated algorithm by programmer standards. Heck, my manager skills in this game elevated significantly just from taking 2 programming courses at the local college and i've got like no idea what i'm doing in those courses.

[USARABAT]

The link you provided doesn't work (or the firewall is blocking it). I click it and I get this screen.Attachment 92715.

Hello, this is a screen shot from the first page . use the title and keywords at the top to google it or send me ur email/ FB to forward it.

[Tyltyl]

Now that I think of it, I can add a few more ideas.
The formation only works towards ball possession, that's all. If you mess it up when you tank, you just lower your possession giving the opponent more scoring opportunities. Hence you lose 0-10. Simple, ok?

Now, I remember that 2 seasons ago while tanking, I encountered other tanking teams, so we both had wrong formations and some matches still ended up with me scoring 2 or 3 goals while conceding 7. How can a wrong team score this much? It should end 0-0, or maybe 1-0, except when ball possession generates his bull****s.
Maybe tactics only give a slightly higher scoring bonus for yourself. Attacking raises your scoring opportunities a little, let's say 5%, while defending it doesn't lower only yours, but the ones of your opponent up to -3%. Makes sense to me.

Let's say you possession is 70%-30%, the higher possession team gets X amount of scoring opportunities (let's say 10) that can generate goals. If you are lucky you get 5 or 6, if you are not and odds are not on your side, you get 1 or 2 and it can actually happen. BUT, on that 30% it generate less opportunities (let's say 3), that don't mean he won't score, it's just about luck and he can score 1.

The same happens when possession is 55%-45%. Both teams generate 5 scoring opportunities from which they get a final result of 2-1.

Then a troll result can happen when you are unlucky and don't get goals with the opportunities you get out of your ball possession, while it generates a goal out of lower opponents opportunities.

Just my crazy idea, but to me it makes sense, because whatever you choose won't change the result. It can be just a ratio calculated over that. Much easier to program, makse sense, mostly fair, if you lose it's bad luck.

[khris]

The algorithm gives Khris the reason. lol