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  1. #1
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    I have done some more testing to understand the relationship between training speed and the levels of the skills being trained. Here is my test subject:

    How to train your players properly after the update-pic1.jpg

    I got him from auction on the first day of the season and trained his SA with repeated sets of Lv4 6x Sprint (I have maxed out my training level, so all drills are Lv4). He gained exactly 2 SA points from each set, which translated to 5.3 Skill% / rest (2 x 4 x 15 / 22.5).

    Part 1

    To figure out how the current level of an attribute affects its training speed, I gave him repeated sets of 6x Wing Play. The reason I chose Wing Play was that it trained precisely one of his white skills (Punching) and nothing else. I thought this was the simplest way to determine his training speed as a function of skill level. I knew beforehand that gains would be high at first and then gradually slowed down before coming to a near halt around 140%. I also knew that training speed under the new system was independent of a player's overall quality, so I did not bother recording it as the experiment went along.

    Here is the result:

    How to train your players properly after the update-table1.png

    The second row indicates the amount of % in Punching gained per set of 6x Wing Play, and adding it to his starting % in the above entry in the first row gives the current % after the set. The main takeaway here is that his training speed slows down each time he has gained 20% in Punching. For instance, he averages 6.7% per set when Punching is between 60% and 79%, and 5% per set between 80% and 99%. The gain per set has slowed to 1.3% after 140%, and I decided to stop at 150%. To summarize,

    How to train your players properly after the update-table2.png

    Note that this table agrees with Al Svanberg's guide under the previous training system (see post #59, divide the last column in the table above by 15 to get his chart):

    https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...ng-system.html

    Part 2

    The problem with Part 1 is that none of the training drills cover only one skill for outfield players. For the other ten guys, each drill trains at least 2 attributes. To address this issue, the next phase of this experiment involves repeated sets of 6x Slalom Dribble. I decided on this because it trains one each of white skill (Fitness) and grey skill (Speed) and nothing else. This way, I can at least determine training speed as a function of the average of the two skills being trained.

    How to train your players properly after the update-table3.png

    Rows 3,4 and 5,6 are similar to those in the first tables. Row 1 gives the average of the two skills being trained and row 2 is the total Skill% gained from each session. As you can see, training gains drop each time the average of the two attributes have increased by 20% just like in Part 1. Again, to summarize,

    How to train your players properly after the update-table4.png

    This table agrees with the second table up to sampling errors (The first rows for 60%-79% differ from each other more due to small sampling size). The key message here is that training gains depends on the average of the skills being trained. More precisely, training gains slow for each 20% gained in the average of the skills. This is my player after the above two series of training:

    How to train your players properly after the update-pic3.jpg

    Part 3

    The last question is: how to train players under the new system? I do not have the best answer here, but I can share what I have done and plan to do in the near future. After training my test player with the above two sets of drills, I did 1-On-1 Finishing, GK Training and One Line of Defense to cover the other nine white skills that had not been trained yet.

    How to train your players properly after the update-pic4.jpg

    I kept the average of the skills being trained by a given drill under 140%; otherwise progress would slow down considerably. I stopped when his overall quality went just above 120% like I did when I power-trained by my players before the new update. I used about 300 rest packs from start to finish, which would more or less be the amount I needed under the old system. In fact, his skills would probably be more or less the same had I trained him under the old system.

    The main issue now is that for the past few seasons, I have picked up one 18 y.o. per season and planned on keeping each player for 11 years. As the seasons go by, I can see how it would be increasing difficult to train a player’s white skills. As the white skills have gone above 140%, I would have to train him with drills that cover both white and grey skills like I did with Slalom Dribble in Part 2.

    Conclusion

    If you want to know how fast a player trains, ignore his overall quality. Instead, treat each individual skill as having its own star system (60%-79%=4*, 80%-99%=5* and so on). When a drill covers multiple skills, take the average of the skills being trained. Just like before with the star system, the more stars the skill average has, the slower your player will train.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLFC View Post
    Conclusion

    If you want to know how fast a player trains, ignore his overall quality. Instead, treat each individual skill as having its own star system (60%-79%=4*, 80%-99%=5* and so on). When a drill covers multiple skills, take the average of the skills being trained. Just like before with the star system, the more stars the skill average has, the slower your player will train.
    Chapeau, Monsieur! This is exactly what I have also found out when training 2 of my players at the start of the season.Thanks for putting all the tables together, so that other people can also understand the new system, I didn't have time to do it yet...

    Fact is, when you train a drill, do it until the average % of the drill are on 140%. Thats why selecting the order of the drills is quite important...
    And also I think, that training up 4 star players is now more valuable than ever before. Because with low white skills they gain a lot at the beginning and they are better skilled in young age. And low grey skills help you pushing some white skills over the top with the right drills.

    Thx for the awesome overview!
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLFC View Post
    Conclusion

    If you want to know how fast a player trains, ignore his overall quality. Instead, treat each individual skill as having its own star system (60%-79%=4*, 80%-99%=5* and so on). When a drill covers multiple skills, take the average of the skills being trained. Just like before with the star system, the more stars the skill average has, the slower your player will train.
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Ryan_M View Post
    Chapeau, Monsieur! This is exactly what I have also found out when training 2 of my players at the start of the season.Thanks for putting all the tables together, so that other people can also understand the new system, I didn't have time to do it yet...

    Fact is, when you train a drill, do it until the average % of the drill are on 140%. Thats why selecting the order of the drills is quite important...
    And also I think, that training up 4 star players is now more valuable than ever before. Because with low white skills they gain a lot at the beginning and they are better skilled in young age. And low grey skills help you pushing some white skills over the top with the right drills.

    Thx for the awesome overview!
    Fantastic work GLFC and Der_Ryan!

    I will add my small validation of what you found since I was very pleased to see my results agreed with yours. My Slalom Dribble is only Semi-Pro, not World Class, so it generates fewer training points per session which accounts for my gains being slightly less than your table shows.

    - I trained 3 wingers (see below) with Slalom Dribble, which trains Pass, Dribble, Fitness, and Speed (all 4 are white skills).
    - Training routine was [(Slalom Dribble x6) = 18% condition loss] x4 rounds = 72% condition @15% per green = 4.8 greens.

    - Rodriguez: Average level of the 4 trained skills: 99.75
    Total skill points gained: 13 (3 Pass, 4 Dribble, 3 Fitness, 3 Strength)
    Skill points/rest pack: 2.7 <--------- close to the 3.2 gains/rest of the 100-119 category

    - Son: Average level of the 4 trained skills: 96.75
    Total skill points gained: 17 (4 Pass, 4 Dribble, 5 Fitness, 4 Strength)
    Skill points/rest pack: 3.5 <--------- close to the 4.3 gains/rest of the 80-99 category

    - Pulisic: Average level of the 4 trained skills: 73.25
    Total skill points gained: 20 (5 Pass, 5 Dribble, 5 Fitness, 5 Strength)
    Skill points/rest pack: 4.2 <--------- close to the 5.0 gains/rest of the 60-79 category

    I think my gains/rest are basically the same as you got, GLFC, with my gains a little less since my Slalom Dribble is at a lower level. It definitely supports your table showing that the rate a skill gains is based on how high or low the sill itself is, not how high or low the player is. Well done.





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    New striker trained today, he is from youth academy last season. Methods were confirmed again.

    How to train your players properly after the update-screenshot-2018-6-7-play-top-eleven-football-manager.jpg

    I used PGS - Shooting Technique - Use Your Head - Skill Drill - Sprint (not finished yet) ... Next I would use 1on1 finishing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Ryan_M View Post
    New striker trained today, he is from youth academy last season. Methods were confirmed again.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I used PGS - Shooting Technique - Use Your Head - Skill Drill - Sprint (not finished yet) ... Next I would use 1on1 finishing.
    Updated - He is becoming a really well skilled player now, even with the new training update. Right training is everything. Everyone reading this thread and applying it to their players the proper way, has a far advantage over scout buyers, who seem to be more frequent after training was getting "harder". And I was only using about 100 greens to push him from 105% to 124% this season. Less than with GK training.

    How to train your players properly after the update-fegideroupdate.jpg

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Ryan_M View Post
    Updated - He is becoming a really well skilled player now, even with the new training update. Right training is everything. Everyone reading this thread and applying it to their players the proper way, has a far advantage over scout buyers, who seem to be more frequent after training was getting "harder". And I was only using about 100 greens to push him from 105% to 124% this season. Less than with GK training.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is another update. I also played about maybe 100-150 friendlys with the player at the start of the season (but he didnt get MOTM bonus in every match, because 2 other starting strikers also played alongside him), which helped him a bit. But then I tried to push his Speed with some Hurdle Jumps and also trained a bit of Hold The Line for his Positioning as he is now 21 and will start to develop slower in the next season.

    How to train your players properly after the update-screenshot_2018-08-01-top-eleven-fu%C3%9Fballmanager-auf-facebook.jpg


    Also here is the other player mentioned in the thread, who was just trained with new training and without any friendlys.

    How to train your players properly after the update-screenshot_2018-08-01-top-eleven-fu%C3%9Fballmanager-auf-facebook-1-.jpg

    As you can see, you can still develop quite good players with the new training update and without using too many green packs. I maybe used around 50-70 on Etheridge this season to get him to that 120% from 104% at the start of the season.


    Also I made a YouTube tutorial on how to train players, when you buy a new player and train him for the first time. You can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrl_BLA0idk
    More videos will come, where we keep watching the progression of the particular player in the video and also train new players with other positions.
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  7. #7
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    Gastei 450 maletas!
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    How you did that ?
    How many greens ?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ποσιδονας View Post
    How you did that ?
    How many greens ?
    Not more than you to reach the same avg Q level.

    He’s up selling the player via multiple teams. With the new training system very low skills are more important than ever to be able to train specific skill.
    He uses the gray skills to pump up the others.

    The changes Nordeus made and the upper caps they added are not preventing up selling or mutant players. It’s only done for us to spend more greens to develop a decent player. And it has taken away a lot of freedom to make a choice to develop specific skills.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    Yeah thats what I noticed as well, the people that benefit the most from the new training system are the upsellers...

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