Teams not leveling up

[RaiKo]

The game have a system, as always, since the engine needs some basic data to work with, so no changes here IMO.

Hi Khris，I'm still just kind of wondering what are your thoughts about the recently introduced features and 3d view updates in terms of effecting to the game simulation engine and math calculations.

[khris]

Hi Khris，I'm still just kind of wondering what are your thoughts about the recently introduced features and 3d view updates in terms of effecting to the game simulation engine and math calculations.

Basically, I believe that the engine have a limited margin, so, it keeps the main essence and when a player has potential, has potential, and when he hasn't, he hasn't...
Like we expereinced with the SAs ... 5 players with FK SA never were a guarantee that we would have a perfect player for free kicks...

The last features basically ordenated and created a visualization about something that was internal and that I always mentioned, one is the weather, that created ordenated the scenarios, so in the old versions a game scenario had different factors impacting in each match and now, these seems to be linked to the weather so each option has a list of determinant scenario factors linked to it.

Then the Playstyles are the visualization/externalization of the internal role that the engine assigns to the player when you sign it, and these roles are linked to animations.
Previously you had to test the players to know if an attacking player was a scorer, or assistant, for example, or if a DL had options to be elegible to join the attack and score/assist time to time. These hidden factors are now visible.

Regarding margins and parameters, as I commented, I believe that its so complicated, because the game have a rythm, we play 28 days... the market, has 5* players in the main market...so, in reality, we already had the player positions, first of all to place players in the lines, then the roles were internally assigned and now we can see them by checking the playstyle, so this doesnt change or brings something new... in reality, what brings something new are the team bonuses+player bonuses and playstyle levels... this IMO doesnt change a lot the previous situation because these bonuses where adapted to the own beatability margin and the own limits that the engine have, so, I mean, a PS can never fix the score vs a +10% team... like, if we train fully the PS the player will gain 300%+ shooting... the margins need air and in the end, and the potential of any player is set as always, it is internally regulated by default when you sign a player. Here is decided if a ST will be able to score a hattrick vs a same avq opponent.
Then the team and player bonuses, more than a addition, it is like a layer added to the beatability margin... it doesnt start as an addition, the 0% bonus, gives a negative % to your chances... so, if 2 teams, 120% vs 125% meet, and the first has 0% bonuses and the second full 10%, the first team will look deactivated because the original margin (that decides the scenairio chances) which was initially a 5% differential margin, is converted in something like a -15% for the local because of the 0% bonuses and the local have... a +15 extra added to the starting margin, so its like a final +30% differance... or so...
lets say that 0% = -10% margin, 2%= -5% 4% = +0% 6% = +5% 8%=+10% and 10%bonus is +15% of margin added to the original onem the beatability margin as we know it....and somehow you can have perception of this if you dont train the team... there is a gap between both teams if one has bonuses and the other does not.

[RaiKo]

The last features basically ordenated and created a visualization about something that was internal and that I always mentioned, one is the weather, that created ordenated the scenarios, so in the old versions a game scenario had different factors impacting in each match and now, these seems to be linked to the weather so each option has a list of determinant scenario factors linked to it.

Thank you. My observations are very close to you. Do you think that is it time for a change, new update on tactical options and also game simulation engine which gotta be able to react more and deep, based on new parameters like playstyles. Especially it could be very important game changer because PS boosters are the rarest item in the game. It's very expensive investing club sources for this. So there should be a meaningful difference between a team with few PS assigned player vs full master level PS line-up team.

[khris]

Thank you. My observations are very close to you. Do you think that is it time for a change, new update on tactical options and also game simulation engine which gotta be able to react more and deep, based on new parameters like playstyles. Especially it could be very important game changer because PS boosters are the rarest item in the game. It's very expensive investing club sources for this. So there should be a meaningful difference between a team with few PS assigned player vs full master level PS line-up team.

If it were for me I would get rid of absolutely all updates added since 2015. lol

[a.gavrilin]

If it were for me I would get rid of absolutely all updates added since 2015. lol

Thank you for all your comments, Khris. It was really interesting to read everything. Well let me ask you several questions now:

1. What is your idea about teams with 1% defensive players (and most often they are even minus/negative players? Now FA top is overcrowded with such teams. And somehow it works - this week in FA I played against a team 30% lower with all defensive players of 1%. And he simply destroyed me. My 170%+ attacking players could absolutely do nothing as during all the animations these defenders were easily stealing all the balls from my attackers.

2. I can not understand what is going on with ball posession? Somehow recently I NEVER can have bigger ball possession than my opponents. This is stupid when you play against 40-45% weaker team without manager, one of his players gets a red card but still he has some 52 possession against yours 48. So what component influences possession?

3. About weather - do you think it plays any attention? How in this case you should change your tactics depending on the weather?

[khris]

Thank you for all your comments, Khris. It was really interesting to read everything. Well let me ask you several questions now:

1. What is your idea about teams with 1% defensive players (and most often they are even minus/negative players? Now FA top is overcrowded with such teams. And somehow it works - this week in FA I played against a team 30% lower with all defensive players of 1%. And he simply destroyed me. My 170%+ attacking players could absolutely do nothing as during all the animations these defenders were easily stealing all the balls from my attackers.

Remember that the engine never simulates a 11vs11, it reduces the selection and only few players which are in ON do a active contribution in a match to create realistic matches, alternating the players that resolve the scenarios, so if, your key player has like 8-10-10-10-10 and there is a expected 8 as rating in the upcoming match, he may be not selected.

The 11 only is counted as overall quality to set the team quality, and your team quality distance with the oppoent quality, that can be +5% +22% etc thats the beatability margin.

2. I can not understand what is going on with ball posession? Somehow recently I NEVER can have bigger ball possession than my opponents. This is stupid when you play against 40-45% weaker team without manager, one of his players gets a red card but still he has some 52 possession against yours 48. So what component influences possession?

3. About weather - do you think it plays any attention? How in this case you should change your tactics depending on the weather?

- as the game works by using lists of elegible players to fill the 25 animations of a match, and it creates 2 lists, of for def. animations and another for attack animations, and, it starts selecting players from the extremes of the field -so GK first election, and STs/aml-c-r which are the same so attack line in attack animations -
If you have a good GK is enough, and same happens with good attacking players and obviating that there are MCs, since you dont need them and are the last to be selecvted by the lists used by the engine to fill animation slots.

- remember that the center of the possession bar never is in the 50% exactly, it is displaced, so this depend on many factors, and remember that playing vs 10 many times turns into a benefit for the reson I mentioned before, the engine works by using lists of few elected players those who are elegible, so in ON because of the rating variations, a player that have 86868 will have a expected 6 in the next game so probably will not participate in the next match as determinat player, so in this case the player is in OFF - so basically there is no player sent off at some point when the engine reads the lists, if Nordeus want this to be more realistic and a issue for the team with 10 players it would need a active punishment applied, like a -8 % possession, or for example, if a player in defence is sent off, deactivate teh defensive team bonus.

3- the game always created scenarios, selecting only few factors of the bunch that can influence a match, so sometimes win bonus worked, condition mattered, morale etc and the weather basically ordenated the scenarios in something we can read

It is like the playstyles, now you have the internal programming visible, and you can know if a DL can join the attack if have a PS allowing this action.
Time ago you had to test the player to know if the DL joined attack, the MC helped in defense and a etc of internal roles that the engine assigns to every player for realistic purposes.

[a.gavrilin]

- as the game works by using lists of elegible players to fill the 25 animations of a match, and it creates 2 lists, of for def. animations and another for attack animations, and, it starts selecting players from the extremes of the field -so GK first election, and STs/aml-c-r which are the same so attack line in attack animations -
If you have a good GK is enough, and same happens with good attacking players and obviating that there are MCs, since you dont need them and are the last to be selecvted by the lists used by the engine to fill animation slots.

- remember that the center of the possession bar never is in the 50% exactly, it is displaced, so this depend on many factors, and remember that playing vs 10 many times turns into a benefit for the reson I mentioned before, the engine works by using lists of few elected players those who are elegible, so in ON because of the rating variations, a player that have 86868 will have a expected 6 in the next game so probably will not participate in the next match as determinat player, so in this case the player is in OFF - so basically there is no player sent off at some point when the engine reads the lists, if Nordeus want this to be more realistic and a issue for the team with 10 players it would need a active punishment applied, like a -8 % possession, or for example, if a player in defence is sent off, deactivate teh defensive team bonus.

3- the game always created scenarios, selecting only few factors of the bunch that can influence a match, so sometimes win bonus worked, condition mattered, morale etc and the weather basically ordenated the scenarios in something we can read

It is like the playstyles, now you have the internal programming visible, and you can know if a DL can join the attack if have a PS allowing this action.
Time ago you had to test the player to know if the DL joined attack, the MC helped in defense and a etc of internal roles that the engine assigns to every player for realistic purposes.

Somehow I think you are very optimistic saying that the game engine can take into account so many factors. And now you are talking about additional factors. What about formation and tactics/orders in this case? Somehow it seems to me that the formation is not working any more. Some 2-3 years ago it was absolutely clear for example that you can beat V-style with a formation of 3 mc. Now nothing works as it should be and I see so many players who are playing just the same formation for seasons without a single change against all the opponents and still have perfect results.

As for ball possession still it is not clear what is the decisive factor. You explained the situation when the player get a red card, but what about an ordinary game? On one of my teams I didn't have any possession in my favour for many seasons already no matter who I play. So what can influence my possession?

Just one today's example of a strange match - the difference between out teams is only 1%. The opponent doesn't come. I play at home so in total I have +15% bonus. Still the ball possession is 42 - 58 in his favour. The game starts and he scores 2 goals in the first 6 minutes. I change the formation and score 3 goals. On the 82nd minute the score is 3-2 in my favour with total shots 19/12 by my team against 5/2 by opponent. The ball possession is still 42-58. And then all of a sudden in the last 8 minutes this bot scores twice and the number of shots becomes 13/9 from his side.

such results are ridiculous. Yesterday such a match cost me a cup when the opponent scored 3 goals in the last 6 minutes. Today it goes on. So I really don't know what is going on

[RaiKo]

a player that have 86868 will have a expected 6 in the next game so probably will not participate in the next match as determinat player, so in this case the player is in OFF

I think it's not valid since they updated player rating system. I need more data and experience to analyze rating patterns.