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Thread: Teams not leveling up

  1. #31
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiKo View Post
    Thank you. My observations are very close to you. Do you think that is it time for a change, new update on tactical options and also game simulation engine which gotta be able to react more and deep, based on new parameters like playstyles. Especially it could be very important game changer because PS boosters are the rarest item in the game. It's very expensive investing club sources for this. So there should be a meaningful difference between a team with few PS assigned player vs full master level PS line-up team.
    If it were for me I would get rid of absolutely all updates added since 2015. lol

  2. #32
    Dreamer a.gavrilin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    If it were for me I would get rid of absolutely all updates added since 2015. lol
    Thank you for all your comments, Khris. It was really interesting to read everything. Well let me ask you several questions now:

    1. What is your idea about teams with 1% defensive players (and most often they are even minus/negative players? Now FA top is overcrowded with such teams. And somehow it works - this week in FA I played against a team 30% lower with all defensive players of 1%. And he simply destroyed me. My 170%+ attacking players could absolutely do nothing as during all the animations these defenders were easily stealing all the balls from my attackers.

    2. I can not understand what is going on with ball posession? Somehow recently I NEVER can have bigger ball possession than my opponents. This is stupid when you play against 40-45% weaker team without manager, one of his players gets a red card but still he has some 52 possession against yours 48. So what component influences possession?

    3. About weather - do you think it plays any attention? How in this case you should change your tactics depending on the weather?

  3. #33
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.gavrilin View Post
    Thank you for all your comments, Khris. It was really interesting to read everything. Well let me ask you several questions now:

    1. What is your idea about teams with 1% defensive players (and most often they are even minus/negative players? Now FA top is overcrowded with such teams. And somehow it works - this week in FA I played against a team 30% lower with all defensive players of 1%. And he simply destroyed me. My 170%+ attacking players could absolutely do nothing as during all the animations these defenders were easily stealing all the balls from my attackers.

    Remember that the engine never simulates a 11vs11, it reduces the selection and only few players which are in ON do a active contribution in a match to create realistic matches, alternating the players that resolve the scenarios, so if, your key player has like 8-10-10-10-10 and there is a expected 8 as rating in the upcoming match, he may be not selected.

    The 11 only is counted as overall quality to set the team quality, and your team quality distance with the oppoent quality, that can be +5% +22% etc thats the beatability margin.

    2. I can not understand what is going on with ball posession? Somehow recently I NEVER can have bigger ball possession than my opponents. This is stupid when you play against 40-45% weaker team without manager, one of his players gets a red card but still he has some 52 possession against yours 48. So what component influences possession?

    3. About weather - do you think it plays any attention? How in this case you should change your tactics depending on the weather?
    - as the game works by using lists of elegible players to fill the 25 animations of a match, and it creates 2 lists, of for def. animations and another for attack animations, and, it starts selecting players from the extremes of the field -so GK first election, and STs/aml-c-r which are the same so attack line in attack animations -
    If you have a good GK is enough, and same happens with good attacking players and obviating that there are MCs, since you dont need them and are the last to be selecvted by the lists used by the engine to fill animation slots.

    - remember that the center of the possession bar never is in the 50% exactly, it is displaced, so this depend on many factors, and remember that playing vs 10 many times turns into a benefit for the reson I mentioned before, the engine works by using lists of few elected players those who are elegible, so in ON because of the rating variations, a player that have 86868 will have a expected 6 in the next game so probably will not participate in the next match as determinat player, so in this case the player is in OFF - so basically there is no player sent off at some point when the engine reads the lists, if Nordeus want this to be more realistic and a issue for the team with 10 players it would need a active punishment applied, like a -8 % possession, or for example, if a player in defence is sent off, deactivate teh defensive team bonus.

    3- the game always created scenarios, selecting only few factors of the bunch that can influence a match, so sometimes win bonus worked, condition mattered, morale etc and the weather basically ordenated the scenarios in something we can read

    It is like the playstyles, now you have the internal programming visible, and you can know if a DL can join the attack if have a PS allowing this action.
    Time ago you had to test the player to know if the DL joined attack, the MC helped in defense and a etc of internal roles that the engine assigns to every player for realistic purposes.
    Last edited by khris; 11-02-2022 at 02:58 PM.

  4. #34
    Dreamer a.gavrilin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    - as the game works by using lists of elegible players to fill the 25 animations of a match, and it creates 2 lists, of for def. animations and another for attack animations, and, it starts selecting players from the extremes of the field -so GK first election, and STs/aml-c-r which are the same so attack line in attack animations -
    If you have a good GK is enough, and same happens with good attacking players and obviating that there are MCs, since you dont need them and are the last to be selecvted by the lists used by the engine to fill animation slots.

    - remember that the center of the possession bar never is in the 50% exactly, it is displaced, so this depend on many factors, and remember that playing vs 10 many times turns into a benefit for the reson I mentioned before, the engine works by using lists of few elected players those who are elegible, so in ON because of the rating variations, a player that have 86868 will have a expected 6 in the next game so probably will not participate in the next match as determinat player, so in this case the player is in OFF - so basically there is no player sent off at some point when the engine reads the lists, if Nordeus want this to be more realistic and a issue for the team with 10 players it would need a active punishment applied, like a -8 % possession, or for example, if a player in defence is sent off, deactivate teh defensive team bonus.

    3- the game always created scenarios, selecting only few factors of the bunch that can influence a match, so sometimes win bonus worked, condition mattered, morale etc and the weather basically ordenated the scenarios in something we can read

    It is like the playstyles, now you have the internal programming visible, and you can know if a DL can join the attack if have a PS allowing this action.
    Time ago you had to test the player to know if the DL joined attack, the MC helped in defense and a etc of internal roles that the engine assigns to every player for realistic purposes.
    Somehow I think you are very optimistic saying that the game engine can take into account so many factors. And now you are talking about additional factors. What about formation and tactics/orders in this case? Somehow it seems to me that the formation is not working any more. Some 2-3 years ago it was absolutely clear for example that you can beat V-style with a formation of 3 mc. Now nothing works as it should be and I see so many players who are playing just the same formation for seasons without a single change against all the opponents and still have perfect results.

    As for ball possession still it is not clear what is the decisive factor. You explained the situation when the player get a red card, but what about an ordinary game? On one of my teams I didn't have any possession in my favour for many seasons already no matter who I play. So what can influence my possession?

    Just one today's example of a strange match - the difference between out teams is only 1%. The opponent doesn't come. I play at home so in total I have +15% bonus. Still the ball possession is 42 - 58 in his favour. The game starts and he scores 2 goals in the first 6 minutes. I change the formation and score 3 goals. On the 82nd minute the score is 3-2 in my favour with total shots 19/12 by my team against 5/2 by opponent. The ball possession is still 42-58. And then all of a sudden in the last 8 minutes this bot scores twice and the number of shots becomes 13/9 from his side.

    such results are ridiculous. Yesterday such a match cost me a cup when the opponent scored 3 goals in the last 6 minutes. Today it goes on. So I really don't know what is going on

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    a player that have 86868 will have a expected 6 in the next game so probably will not participate in the next match as determinat player, so in this case the player is in OFF
    I think it's not valid since they updated player rating system. I need more data and experience to analyze rating patterns.
    khris likes this.

  6. #36
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.gavrilin View Post
    Somehow I think you are very optimistic saying that the game engine can take into account so many factors. And now you are talking about additional factors. What about formation and tactics/orders in this case? Somehow it seems to me that the formation is not working any more. Some 2-3 years ago it was absolutely clear for example that you can beat V-style with a formation of 3 mc. Now nothing works as it should be and I see so many players who are playing just the same formation for seasons without a single change against all the opponents and still have perfect results.

    As for ball possession still it is not clear what is the decisive factor. You explained the situation when the player get a red card, but what about an ordinary game? On one of my teams I didn't have any possession in my favour for many seasons already no matter who I play. So what can influence my possession?

    Just one today's example of a strange match - the difference between out teams is only 1%. The opponent doesn't come. I play at home so in total I have +15% bonus. Still the ball possession is 42 - 58 in his favour. The game starts and he scores 2 goals in the first 6 minutes. I change the formation and score 3 goals. On the 82nd minute the score is 3-2 in my favour with total shots 19/12 by my team against 5/2 by opponent. The ball possession is still 42-58. And then all of a sudden in the last 8 minutes this bot scores twice and the number of shots becomes 13/9 from his side.

    such results are ridiculous. Yesterday such a match cost me a cup when the opponent scored 3 goals in the last 6 minutes. Today it goes on. So I really don't know what is going on
    "Somehow I think you are very optimistic saying that the game engine can take into account so many factors. "

    No no, its exatly the opposite, the game selects only few factors for a scenario, and few players to be determinant.
    It is a simple process in reality without any complexity.

    Orders? same as players in ON/OFF, passing to right/left/center are in ON/OFF options, long short passing, the same, and as commented, a punishment for low condition? too ON/OFF with a relative impact.

    Since the engine works by using lists in reality it doesnt simulate a formation vs formation, the engine doesnt know and never knew what a formation was... its about the list and elegible players, so then you placed the 3mcs vs the V it was the list of elegible players that could give the advantadge, but the game changed, in 2015 the STs lost the power and the whole attack line is exactly the same so a AML may be the top scorer... and you may play 5 seasons without a ST in the top because the re-distribution of internal roles and parameters.

    Possession depends on the Beatability Margin, find the right setting that fit to "activate your players to perform properly" and Dominance Power.
    The engine assign the Dominance power (so + power themore animations can join a player, for good actions as score, or bad as miss) and the Constibutive Power which affect the effectivity.
    The more "well programmed are your players" and the more fluidly can play your team, the more possession you can reach, thats chemistry.

    And yea, I lost a game yesterday vs a 30% lower team, margins are wide than before and the expansion of the margin to allow 200%s+ players caused a nonsense that can turn into something unpredictible... but this is caused because the margin has been extended to add different features.

    And yeah Im agree here in that it is so complicated right now to learn the game in a intuitive way, read scenarios as before turned into something complicated because at some point, with wide parameters, the game turned into something crazy, its like if tomorrow a 5* team can face and win a 9* with 300%s... how do you read here the game parameters? where can you see the limits? what have the 9* team to do to guarantee a win?

    Btw my potato game sent me to a final for the 17th Super League lol

    I trained the GKs anticipation to 160 and he got a goal after days of clean sheets

    Teams not leveling up-10.jpg

  7. #37
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiKo View Post
    I think it's not valid since they updated player rating system. I need more data and experience to analyze rating patterns.
    Yeah, its true that at some point the ratings changed into something that can not be properly read right now.

  8. #38
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    Remember when you lose, it just means your opponents team has better rating patterns, contributive/domination chemistry. This is not a proven method to improve team performance. We do not even understand the system better as these guys do not represent the company and are just selling an idea on how the engine works. It might not even be true.

  9. #39
    Dreamer a.gavrilin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastsiderSG View Post
    Remember when you lose, it just means your opponents team has better rating patterns, contributive/domination chemistry. This is not a proven method to improve team performance. We do not even understand the system better as these guys do not represent the company and are just selling an idea on how the engine works. It might not even be true.
    Well you may be right here, but in this case the question is - how to achieve better rating patterns with your team, when you have everything trained to the top. And how for example a bot team 40-50% lower with crap players get better ratings than your team?

    Right now I'm for example on the stage where noting works and you have no idea what can be fixed or changed to get better results. My team is perfectly trained, all the players with SAs and PSs and I try changing formations and tactics but somehow nothing works. And this makes you think what is wrong with this game or with you? Some people from lower levels keep boasting about their perfect results with crap teams saying that I make mistakes and have no experience, but saying that you have no experience after 9 years of playing this game sounds stupid.

    So you still keep searching in this case and you still come to the same conclussion - nothing depends on you
    JohnnyEye likes this.

  10. #40
    Famous EastsiderSG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.gavrilin View Post
    Well you may be right here, but in this case the question is - how to achieve better rating patterns with your team, when you have everything trained to the top. And how for example a bot team 40-50% lower with crap players get better ratings than your team?

    Right now I'm for example on the stage where noting works and you have no idea what can be fixed or changed to get better results. My team is perfectly trained, all the players with SAs and PSs and I try changing formations and tactics but somehow nothing works. And this makes you think what is wrong with this game or with you? Some people from lower levels keep boasting about their perfect results with crap teams saying that I make mistakes and have no experience, but saying that you have no experience after 9 years of playing this game sounds stupid.

    So you still keep searching in this case and you still come to the same conclussion - nothing depends on you
    I am low level and i think we win or lose by the good graces of nordeus. If they want you to lose, you will. They will balance everything out and let you do better some seasons and worse during others. High quality is the only way to win more and it means you have to spend because greens will only get us to 180. And yes, still have to train correctly up to 180 before PT. I think Lakis still does well for top level.

    Yes, thats right. I keep saying that. The community leaders are tasked to keep telling you its your fault. To make it look legit, they even blast their own game at times. It’s definitely whats wrong with you. Thats the strategy so that their perfect game doesnt have to improve. Only we need to spend to improve our teams. Isnt it like that for all games? Hire a team of people is some third world country to scam people or influence people.

    Anyway you played 9 years, you know what kinda teams are strong enough to beat you. If you think you can beat the system, sure go ahead, test it out and spend your greens and tokens. But at least everyone is aware, these players say they do not work for nordeus but are suggesting a way to test and improve performance by burning greens through friendlies and training and burning tokens to replace players. If you still lose, its because the other team tested more than you or had a better combi of dominant and contributive players or there were some other parameters in place that are random every match. In short your fault
    Last edited by EastsiderSG; 11-03-2022 at 02:19 PM.

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