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Thread: Teams not leveling up

  1. #21
    Pro jarharnamme's Avatar
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    yeah im same like you. basically the high lvl team is dead so i make another account and bullying newbies with that account now it reach lvl60ish.
    then here comes the problem. what to do with the old account? apparently the easiest things to do is to reset us to lower level because at higher level you just stuck with 14 180% teams and that's so boring. heck even facing same team every month.
    that's why i enjoy asso more. face new teams, with similar %.
    did the nordeus staff go to this thread khris? there're so many good points here that they should consider regarding us the old veteran players..

  2. #22
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.gavrilin View Post
    Hi guys. Glad to see so mane experienced managers in one thread. It's been a long time since I last entered the forum - almost 4 years. @Khris, glad you are still here, mate! I miss a lot our crazy worldcups you organized previously. I still keep the emblem for the winning of the 2nd worldcup and I'm still very proud of it)))

    Happy to see that I'm not the one seeing the problem that now exist that refer to top level. I'm now still level 99 having played 110 seasons. And I have reached top level of the server starting from season 82. Well it was actually the last time I have ever won any title ((( As you say - nothing actually helps. Perfectly trained 170+ players with 250-300+ white skills cannot score a single goal and the draw keeps giving me 70-80% opponents higher than me even in the league. Once I made an experiment and started the season with 78% team and still got 170% opponents and higher.

    I still keep this team just for habit but somehow decided to give this game another chance starting a new club. First 10 seasons were too easy. Somehow the game did manage to give me 3 loses in the more important matches that cost me 3 cups, but still perfectly trained team playing against much weaker opponents had it's winning series of more than 450 matches.

    The fun started once I turned to level 11 where I'm now. Still same lower opponents, still same and even better trained players of my team, but this time the engine suddenly changed. And this season it turns out in the cup only. Somehow 40% lower team without manager (78% against my 117%) can easiy bit me twice with incredible statictics (22/14 shots of the opponent against 5/2 shots of my team). How the hell suddenly my strikers forgot to shot. I also like 40-60% keepers making 12-14 saves when 160% keeper missing 3 goals out of 3 shots.

    So the conclussion is easy. Just as I have been telling all those years before - the engine and the results are predetermined. Top level of the server is the biggest headache of the game and Nordeus does nothing to solve it for so many years already. But the sad thing is that still the engine is broken. I miss those times when we were reading text matches but the managers decisions, formations and tactics really had important influence on the game process.
    Nice to see you here again man now the community migrated to Facebook and we had a boom of new communities created every single day, the forum still existing as a central and key place but right now if I administrate any competition, I do it on FB in the OMA group, that have 73 sub-communities of 73 national federations. Just feel free to check it out and join the Official Managers Association if one day you want to represent Ukraine in any competition.

    Btw not sure Ive sent you the World Cup trophy design I did, since we played months ago the IVth Edition, so here it comes and it have all winners names
    Teams not leveling up-wc4th-shield-brazil-copia.jpg

  3. #23
    Dreamer a.gavrilin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    Nice to see you here again man now the community migrated to Facebook and we had a boom of new communities created every single day, the forum still existing as a central and key place but right now if I administrate any competition, I do it on FB in the OMA group, that have 73 sub-communities of 73 national federations. Just feel free to check it out and join the Official Managers Association if one day you want to represent Ukraine in any competition.

    Btw not sure Ive sent you the World Cup trophy design I did, since we played months ago the IVth Edition, so here it comes and it have all winners names
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wc4th shield brazil copia.jpg 
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    Wow, that's some great idea! It was a pleasure to see my name on it. Good job, Khris! What about new engine theories? Do you still consider this game to have some working engine or would you agree now it's absolutely random?

  4. #24
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.gavrilin View Post
    Wow, that's some great idea! It was a pleasure to see my name on it. Good job, Khris! What about new engine theories? Do you still consider this game to have some working engine or would you agree now it's absolutely random?
    The game have a system, as always, since the engine needs some basic data to work with, so no changes here IMO.
    Now we have team and player bonuses, playstyles, morale etc but the game have a distance that is covered and limited by itself so you cant see a progressive effect of each feature nor barely identify the effect of each one -like the morale, you cant say in what aspect is affecting since the engine still working with lists and numbers basically- like happened with the special abilities years ago, you can try to train 4 players with the same SA but you'll see how the engine assign roles internally, so the well programmed players will resolve your games and, you'll never be able to "create a good player intentionally" just by taking a random player, and training him.

    The internal programming sets the limits of each team, always has been like this, and still it is.

    This season for example, I bought some scouts, 4 gks, etc because Ive been tanking for long and I had a full squad of retired players. I did a mistake and it was that I didnt sell those reserves that have a good internal role assigned so to liberate key player roles to be assigned for new signings, and i realized late that even with 4 GKs and the attacking players I bought, the good players, those who score are those with 2-3-4* so, here, all is about that... internal roles by default, limited power to each player to create realism etc

  5. #25
    Dreamer a.gavrilin's Avatar
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    The things you are writing are interesting but so hard to understand (((( So for me the better explanation of my problems is random and Nordeus )))

  6. #26
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.gavrilin View Post
    The things you are writing are interesting but so hard to understand (((( So for me the better explanation of my problems is random and Nordeus )))
    It is simple once you understand the process

    The engine creates realistic teams by assigning internal roles to the players of your squad.
    Since the matches have 25 animations, and the games can't be repetitive, certain variables are added.
    So each game is resolved by different players and, from all the posible factors that may affect a match, few are selected to impact the match -can be the condition, win bonus, morale and a etc and this is called scenario.

    Basically, you know that you can't buy 11 players who scored 40 goals each with another club and see the same behaviour, because of that calibration when you sign these players for your team.

    The engine will assign a "available internal role" that will affect 2 parameters, Dominance Power -so, the number of animations where a player can be elegible during a match- and the Contributive Power which affect the Effectivity. Then, the variable to have different players resolving the different matches is provided mainly by the Rating Variations, so you can predict that a player who got 68686 will have a push and will affect the next game.

    From here the engine does 2 lists, one for attacking animations, and another for defensive animations selecting available players and each list starts from a extreme of the field, so in defense the GK is the first elegible player and thats why its so important and can be decisive, in attack the STs/AMC/AML-R are in the same line since 2015 and thats why many times the aml/r are the players who score instead the STs.

    If you understand, that each team, for realistic reasons, have a limited of "good internal roles" and you can spot the dominance power/and contributive power assigned, you can resolve many common issues we experience.

    For example, you may buy a attackign player with a lot of dominance power, but low efficency, and in this case he will stole animations from other players because of his power, just to miss. Here you need to sack him.

    All is the same, lists of players to fill animations, their power of dominance so to be elegible for more animations, the 2 lists the engine does, the roles by default assigned so, for example, a ST could be a assistant and, you can train the shooting till 340% but the main role assigned, which is linked to an animation where he assists, will not change. You can not convert a scorer in assistant and viceversa because of that.
    And no, the visual skills dont improve a player proportionally because the internal power caps. You could train a team to the Max. all 9* 340%s whites and you will see how the roles are distributed, how the caps to score, assist, be aggessive are spread, and, the same you can see this with a full 9* team 340% you can expose the internal programming, by playing vs a 1% team from enough levels of distance as to reach the max. distance that the simulator can simulate, so vs a -180% team will make your team uniform, and your 2* will be at same level as the 9* and here you may realize that the 2* is better programmed than the 9*

    Just a bit of guide for all those who read here lol


    At some point you can perceive these stuffs.
    Last edited by khris; 10-28-2022 at 03:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    The game have a system, as always, since the engine needs some basic data to work with, so no changes here IMO.
    Hi Khris,I'm still just kind of wondering what are your thoughts about the recently introduced features and 3d view updates in terms of effecting to the game simulation engine and math calculations.

  8. #28
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiKo View Post
    Hi Khris,I'm still just kind of wondering what are your thoughts about the recently introduced features and 3d view updates in terms of effecting to the game simulation engine and math calculations.
    Basically, I believe that the engine have a limited margin, so, it keeps the main essence and when a player has potential, has potential, and when he hasn't, he hasn't...
    Like we expereinced with the SAs ... 5 players with FK SA never were a guarantee that we would have a perfect player for free kicks...

    The last features basically ordenated and created a visualization about something that was internal and that I always mentioned, one is the weather, that created ordenated the scenarios, so in the old versions a game scenario had different factors impacting in each match and now, these seems to be linked to the weather so each option has a list of determinant scenario factors linked to it.

    Then the Playstyles are the visualization/externalization of the internal role that the engine assigns to the player when you sign it, and these roles are linked to animations.
    Previously you had to test the players to know if an attacking player was a scorer, or assistant, for example, or if a DL had options to be elegible to join the attack and score/assist time to time. These hidden factors are now visible.

    Regarding margins and parameters, as I commented, I believe that its so complicated, because the game have a rythm, we play 28 days... the market, has 5* players in the main market...so, in reality, we already had the player positions, first of all to place players in the lines, then the roles were internally assigned and now we can see them by checking the playstyle, so this doesnt change or brings something new... in reality, what brings something new are the team bonuses+player bonuses and playstyle levels... this IMO doesnt change a lot the previous situation because these bonuses where adapted to the own beatability margin and the own limits that the engine have, so, I mean, a PS can never fix the score vs a +10% team... like, if we train fully the PS the player will gain 300%+ shooting... the margins need air and in the end, and the potential of any player is set as always, it is internally regulated by default when you sign a player. Here is decided if a ST will be able to score a hattrick vs a same avq opponent.
    Then the team and player bonuses, more than a addition, it is like a layer added to the beatability margin... it doesnt start as an addition, the 0% bonus, gives a negative % to your chances... so, if 2 teams, 120% vs 125% meet, and the first has 0% bonuses and the second full 10%, the first team will look deactivated because the original margin (that decides the scenairio chances) which was initially a 5% differential margin, is converted in something like a -15% for the local because of the 0% bonuses and the local have... a +15 extra added to the starting margin, so its like a final +30% differance... or so...
    lets say that 0% = -10% margin, 2%= -5% 4% = +0% 6% = +5% 8%=+10% and 10%bonus is +15% of margin added to the original onem the beatability margin as we know it....and somehow you can have perception of this if you dont train the team... there is a gap between both teams if one has bonuses and the other does not.

  9. #29
    Pro jarharnamme's Avatar
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    lol..
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    The last features basically ordenated and created a visualization about something that was internal and that I always mentioned, one is the weather, that created ordenated the scenarios, so in the old versions a game scenario had different factors impacting in each match and now, these seems to be linked to the weather so each option has a list of determinant scenario factors linked to it.
    Thank you. My observations are very close to you. Do you think that is it time for a change, new update on tactical options and also game simulation engine which gotta be able to react more and deep, based on new parameters like playstyles. Especially it could be very important game changer because PS boosters are the rarest item in the game. It's very expensive investing club sources for this. So there should be a meaningful difference between a team with few PS assigned player vs full master level PS line-up team.

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