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Thread: Training a Special Ability or New Position

  1. #41
    Famous Cloverfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woopypooky View Post
    Anyone have successfully trained a new position and the player turned up good?

    Does a good player is good everywhere on the pitch as long as he was trained that particular position?

    I'm asking this because i got a ST and wanted to train him as an AMC. He's very good as ST but problem i already have a top token ST.
    Well I guess there is no guaranteed answer because this needs extensive testing.
    But I have to tell you that currently my top performer player has ST-AML-AMR positions, and I had bought him as an ST.

    I have done the same in the past with success.

    It is a gamble, but if you found a 18yo fast trainer ST, it worth the gamble because you may not find a Nordgen young player in position you want
    ibangali likes this.

  2. #42
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    yes, a ST can be very good (many times better) as AM too
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  3. #43
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    I have bought AMC this season. Only single position and no SA. I have checked I can only add Shadow striker with it. Is it worth adding special ability or just leave it as it is?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunzo View Post
    Bought a 18 year old Q 99 this morning from a (good name team ) once he rested I started training tonight around 50 -60 greens to get defensive wall SA.He was hitting +120 -130 at first then dropped a little to +80 when this happens you add what skill points you have to the SA and then continue training and he goes back up to +120 once the 50 was reached I continued till i got fed up he was still hitting +100 (stopped at Q102 ) & he will do this till he reaches his 6 star Q105.
    sorry for a stupid question, but what is +120-130 that you are talking about? Is that his average skill level? Or is that the return from just one training session?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hullabaloo View Post
    sorry for a stupid question, but what is +120-130 that you are talking about? Is that his average skill level? Or is that the return from just one training session?
    These numbers are from the old version. It used to be here, but no longer available.
    It wasn't our day.

  6. #46
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    firstly, THANKS to Al and all involved.
    worth of bumping up

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Svanberg View Post

    Why add a NP?
    There three or maybe even four reasons to add a NP to a player
    ....
    Secondly, a player has highlighted abilities that are deemed crucial to the players position and grey abilities that are deemed less crucial. The highlighted abilities will train much faster than the grey abilities. In other words, by adding a NP you also add abilities that it will be easier to train for your player.
    about underlined part, is that tested? is it old version feature that doesn't work in same way now?

    why I ask is I have a player in his 3rd season now. so far invested 240 greens in him to train drill which gave him 3 whites with 1 gray skill, crossing. I'm comparison to my other players of same Q dont think he got less crossing then players which have it as white skill.

    other part of question would be how sustainable is to add new position just in order to highlite desired gray skill. .. let's say example from original post., ading DMC to DC so he would have passing as white: lets asume he is 18-20 yo FT and has passing at 60% now. how many condition pts or greens to get it to lets say 100% ??

    after investing 40-50 greens in (presumably) otherwise useless NP you'll have same expense to get passing up to 100, no? now, with those 50 greens more, how high would his passing be?
    also, if he remains to play as DC, will he use that skill any more than before? if and when, will he do it better? any way to see if players with 100% white passing do it better than players with 160% gray? or with 30%?

    as far as game statistics go, most I had is like 92 vs 83 complete passes, and that's vs quite waek team. not really +80% difference one would expect comparing team vs. team or position vs. positon passing skill.

    even if your reason to add NP is to cover position you really need: finding even somewhat weaker player with desired pos as natural one and training him up to desired level is cheaper - short to midterm.

    great guide, once more, but I find that reasoning behind adding NP weak, maybe worthwhile only if you are like sure you want that player for good, or two days worth of greens means nothing to you... or to temporary block his progress.
    Last edited by sasha m; 04-02-2018 at 12:22 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeManiaque View Post
    ^^
    But are you sure there isn't a synergistic effect in training [synergistic means more effective together than alone]?
    no. training my DL/DC, DC/DMC, DR/DC together and one by one. same with front four, they share AML/R position and training together quite often. same with 3 MCs, in bit lesser extent, as they have diferent 2nd possition and SA, not together that often..
    but yeah, I train groups whenever possible to compare easier etc
    maybe don't have great sample, only 2 full seasons, but no.

    but there is one sweet little thing I've noticed about group training: when they are close to 30% condition, give them easy or medium drill, just to pass under it, to get to 28 or 29%.
    hit repeat button, you'll get to refresh whole group watching one ad. note that it will still be only 15 condition points, distributed evenly. repeat, repeat, repeat. that way you can have your D or M line move up as one, only difference being preprogramed talent.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha m View Post
    about underlined part, is that tested? is it old version feature that doesn't work in same way now?
    There is a guide that explains it: https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...ng-system.html
    In short:
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxcatl View Post
    XP from a drill goes to all its skills equally, if they are all key skills. For example, Hurdle Jumps is a Hard drill (4 XP) and trains 3 skills (Bravery, Aggression and Speed) for 4 / 3 = 1.33 XP each on level 1, if all these skills are white.
    If there are grey skills, they receive 25% less experience from training, and this XP goes as bonus to the white skills of this drill equally. So a drill with grey skills trains its white skills faster, but for the cost of XP spent on grey skills. Total quality gain of the player is unaffected: drills of the same level improve player's quality with the same rate regardless of having or not having grey skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by sasha m View Post
    why I ask is I have a player in his 3rd season now. so far invested 240 greens in him to train drill which gave him 3 whites with 1 gray skill, crossing. I'm comparison to my other players of same Q dont think he got less crossing then players which have it as white skill.
    All players get XP with different pace. You have to use a single drill on a single player many times (or GKT + drill), write down his gain in each skill, and then compare how much he got. Then you'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by sasha m View Post
    other part of question would be how sustainable is to add new position just in order to highlite desired gray skill.
    I suspect that it doesn't work like this. I think if you have DC and give him DMC to highlight Passing, but you keep using him on DC position, that Passing will be as good as grey. Even worse -- it will consume more XP.
    White skills are not skills a player uses, they are skills that are useful on the position(s) he's playing. If he doesn't play on a position with Passing, his Passing is either useless or less important regardless of being grey or white. But this is not a science, you know, just a speculation. You may be right here, I'm just pointing out we don't know how does it work, and there is a chance it doesn't work like you assume.

    Quote Originally Posted by sasha m View Post
    also, if he remains to play as DC, will he use that skill any more than before?
    Do players use their skills at all? There is no evidence of that. Maybe the average is considered, maybe the sum, maybe only quality matters.
    It wasn't our day.

  9. #49
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    thanks tox, I've missed that -25% gain on grays part in your tutorial... doing useful, all white drills that was my only case... my mc guy is learning bit slower then amr/L pair he joins in training sometimes, i never realized it's only in that skill.

    about usefulness, alright, bad example I pulled from original post..
    basically all I was trying to say is
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxcatl View Post
    It is either high or balanced, not both at the same time. Highly-specialized players versus all-arounders. And since a player can't play two positions at the same time, it is better to train him to do one job really good.
    investment in NP to highlight a skill, not worth it...even under assumption that single skill of single player does makes any difference.
    test proposal (mental test, I'm pretty sure you can do math in seconds):
    -player 1 continues training x skill as gray
    -player 2 gets NP first to have it white:
    -continue investing same in both...
    how many greens more before they equilize? before player 2 makes use of not suffering -25% learning penalty and get that skill at same %?
    ok, his will be white, (25% more succes chance? 100%? same?) but under postulates from original post (remaining mainly in original position) it would be used once in while, and that in his or in overall team performance probably means nothing at all. will one successful pass change a game? quite possible. worth investing? hmm
    Last edited by sasha m; 04-03-2018 at 01:11 PM.

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