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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Guide: Condition loss and Ability gain in games

  1. #11
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    Jeeves- BTW, do you think that the fitness ability of a player/avg of a team, impacts the condition loss of a player/the players in a game?

    I see no correlation between it just looking at my team's numbers. But OTOH, if so many factors affects it, its possible that its lost among all other factors. I have started a team with my own account (the other two are my kid's accounts), and will look at the numbers more closely when they come from 3 star players. Maybe its easier to spot a difference there.

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    Pro Jeeves's Avatar
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    @ Al Svanberg

    I do, but mostly because it would make sense for the fitness to affect condition loss. I don't have any research to back it up, though. I was thinking that it could also be related to the chance of receiving an injury.

  3. #13
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    More numbers done:
    Guide: Condition loss and Ability gain in games-3-nytt-spreadsheet.png

    Guys, I am thinking of system where I flag games, like just green and red to start with, depending on how objective factors indicate if the game will be tough or not for a player.

    Like every time a AMC face an DMC, If I have the play go down the flanks or center I would flag it red. If its the opposite, I would flag it green.

    What factors do you guys think I should look at? I am thinking something like this:

    -Play focused to a certain area = higher condition loss (red) for the players in these ares/lower condition loss (green) for players not in this area

    -Central midfielders (DMC/MC/AMC) facing fewer/more opponents = fewer green/more red

    -Wing players facing fewer/more opponents = fewer green/more red

    -GK -- after the game, low/high number of shots against = green/red

    What do you guys think? I am not sure exactly how it functions for DMCs. HFF plays wtih 2 DMCs and 1 MC. If they face 3 MCs, do they loose more conditioning, because they have to step up field to get to their man, or is it the other way around?

    Anyway, this would be very rough, I couldn't really consider the opponents orders, but I am hoping that this at least could be a start. The spread for my guys is between 14 and 23, ie plus minus 4.5 from 18.5. Someone like my wingback Cafinha and my DMCs Manté and Dailly seem to have pretty digital numbers, either low around 14-17 or high numbers around 19-22. If I can find a somewhat significant correlation here it would at least be something to start wokring from.

    Parallel to this I am also planning to try track how often a player is mentioned in the play by play in the old version, and flag him green or red depending on if he is mentioned more or less than the avg. I am not sure how much these numbers must be calibered. Is a DC mentioned as often as a ST? A MC vs a ST? What is the "norm" for each position?

  4. #14
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    - In the old version, it was more clear to see a relation between the performance and condition loss. now it's more complicate because we have also a new factor, the condition bonus and a difference in abilities.
    In training (old version) still you can see the relation between the gaining and condition loss.

    -
    Jeeves- BTW, do you think that the fitness ability of a player/avg of a team, impacts the condition loss of a player/the players in a game?
    I do,
    I don't. Going back to the old version, it was very common when you bought a scout player, to get injured in the first 4-5 days. And generally 6*-7* players were more vulnerable than low 5* players. Of course their stats (M&P) were much better but this didn't help to less condition loss or less injuries (rather the opposite).
    I believe (my personal opinion ofc.) that those "mechanics" are still the same.
    * Unless one day a dev come and tell us officially if and how the new abilities has some impact to the game play from now on.

    - I agree with Jeeves that it's too difficult and complicate to have some strong evidence from testing and measures so I believe it's better to focus in some more practical things about condition (which has anyway a range between a 18% to 25%).
    What I mean ?
    - Condition bonus : How affects the condition loss ?
    - Playing man to man instead of zonal ?
    - Playing high pressing instead of low ?
    (the other orders - like hard defending) has no impact
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  5. #15
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    Niko- Yeah, but what I think would be interesting to see is if and how there is any impact from these things. Even if that info in itself isn't useful. Why? It would give us a clearer picture of how many "micro pieces" the game is broken into. And what those micro pieces might be.

    Looking at grades and condition loss, these micro pieces seem to be fairly frequent.

    And in the micro pieces, at least in some, ability certainly matters a lot. Like most obvious are free kicks and corners. The individual ability of a player has a major impact in these areas. How about the rest?

  6. #16
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    from here
    http://forum.topeleven.com/top-eleve...-effiency.html


    You can also try to focus on Shooting and Finishing attributes in your training sessions. It will improve your player's ability to shoot accurately and score.
    Jeeves, my players are often placed where there are no defenders and shooting and finishing on my players are from 150% - 275% !! This has no effect at all, they are rubbish at finishing and almost all the time are blocked by an defender.
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  7. #17
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    Well, CR7 is not scoring off the majority of shots, nor is Messi... Or anyone else who touches a football.

    Frankly, I don't trust us managers to accurately say a ST isn't doing better than a DC, or isn't taking enough shots."no effect at all" is hyperbole, some frustrated user just doesn't believe in the game. Anecdotes are weak analysis.

  8. #18
    Famous Toxcatl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeves View Post
    I do, but mostly because it would make sense for the fitness to affect condition loss.
    Not necessarily. It could be that the game can add a bonus to players performance depending on his Fitness, while Condition loss (CL) stays the same.
    As we know from Al's guides, CL is the Experience. In the game's mechanics it's the same thing (with multiplier 1.33). So if Fitness affects CL, it should be somehow compensated so players don't progress slowly because of high Fitness skill.
    We simply don't know. I hope more tests will clarify this.
    Also I'd like to know if I should activate Condition bonus to reduce CL. I suspect the answer on this question will be the same. Or maybe not? ::)
    Last edited by Toxcatl; 11-03-2016 at 07:31 AM.
    Al Svanberg likes this.

  9. #19
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    Next season I will try to play man-man and use the condition bonus, will be interesting to see the result!

  10. #20
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    Is the ability gain in games much less for say a 26y old compared to a 21y old?

    Gonna get myself a new goalkeeper that plays every game, and while i like younger players i dont mind age as much on a GK.

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