Understanding role of Luck in top eleven

[nikolgiorgos]

Not sure I would compare backgammon to slot machines.

it's not a slot machine, it's backgammon.
If it was a slot machine i wouldn't have 132 1st cups and you wouldn't have those

Level 10
10 x League Champion
6 x Champions League Winner (2 x Runner Up)
7 x Cup Winner (2 x Runner Up)
5 x Super Cup Winner
434 Wins/ 40 Draws / 24 Losses
1945 Goals Scored / 283 Goals Conceded/ 71 Games Longest Unbeaten Streak

[Lucian1986]

it's not a slot machine, it's backgammon.
If it was a slot machine i wouldn't have 132 1st cups and you wouldn't have those

Backgammon is a game of skill. If Top Eleven were a game of skill, my abandoned team wouldn't have 33 wins and only 2 defeats this season.... but it does.... so zero skills involved in an abandoned team yet, at lvl 8, it has 5 Leagues won, 2 Cups and 2 Champions Leagues. Or is your argument that most players are less skilled than an abandoned team?

Also, apart from 6 defeats, every one of those defeats felt like I was cheated.

[Lucian1986]

Khris, it isn't just about differences in quality!

It is about the fact that sometimes, you can very clearly tell that your team is playing at half strength. Whereas your team performed solidly all season, suddenly, against a relatively weak team, your team can't seem to make more than 2 passes without losing the ball while your GK's rating falls to 5 after 10 min or you get 3 goals scored against you in 10 min. Few people are coming on here and complaining that in a tough fought battle, the opponent got lucky on a counter and scored the goal of the game. They are complaining because they either dominate the opponent and still lose or their team fell apart against a team that should have been a minor inconvenience.

Also, getting from 85% to 110% isn't easy. It requires a lot of work. When you see your team lose sporadically to much weaker teams and abandoned teams outperform, it doesn't feel like skills are involved.

[khris]

Khris, it isn't just about differences in quality!

It is about the fact that sometimes, you can very clearly tell that your team is playing at half strength. Whereas your team performed solidly all season, suddenly, against a relatively weak team, your team can't seem to make more than 2 passes without losing the ball while your GK's rating falls to 5 after 10 min or you get 3 goals scored against you in 10 min. Few people are coming on here and complaining that in a tough fought battle, the opponent got lucky on a counter and scored the goal of the game. They are complaining because they either dominate the opponent and still lose or their team fell apart against a team that should have been a minor inconvenience.

Also, getting from 85% to 110% isn't easy. It requires a lot of work. When you see your team lose sporadically to much weaker teams and abandoned teams outperform, it doesn't feel like skills are involved.

Ohh yeah, it is a differance of margins and beatability margin of avq, too the scores cap that contain the scores for the better team is the reason why people find the simulator actually annoying. People had the chance to train till a distance and knew that the win was guaranteed with effort, not a -60% in 14th position can draw vs you, when time ago we could easily win abandones low avq teams 14-0.

Theres a significant differance...

[Tactician]

Backgammon is a game of skill. If Top Eleven were a game of skill, my abandoned team wouldn't have 33 wins and only 2 defeats this season.... but it does.... so zero skills involved in an abandoned team yet, at lvl 8, it has 5 Leagues won, 2 Cups and 2 Champions Leagues. Or is your argument that most players are less skilled than an abandoned team?

Also, apart from 6 defeats, every one of those defeats felt like I was cheated.

This is the problem. Like I said in the past, it is not a matter of winning or losing but how you win or lose. If you worked, you did things properly like a manager should be doing in a game of football managment, you won, good, but if you leave your team abandoned (no management, no maintenance of condition and moral, no training, nothing), but this team even goes to finals of knockout competitions and even win some of them, then this is worrying unless all the opponents were as crap as your team or even worse in state . Another example: you face an active team but the manager been doing what should be crap or **** in the way he been managing his team and also how he set his team to face yours but still he beats you. This is not only worrying but frustrating. If such things happen, then it is understandable why some users say this game is like a slot machine.

Concerning luck, it is evident that luck should be involved too just as to how it is involved in real life football and what is appropriate for a decent football management game. But, based on complaints here and there, maybe the extent of certain things has gone too far in this game. On overall, maybe 25-30% should depend on luck but if it is 50% like Nik suspect, then this is too much, and it is an explanation why so much **** happened.

[Lucian1986]

Concerning luck, it is evident that luck should be involved too just as to how it is involved in real life football and what is appropriate for a decent football management game. But, based on complaints here and there, maybe the extent of certain things has gone too far in this game.

Arguments are on point and I agree fully. Lucky should be involved.

I lost once in the 16th round of the champions league against a team 8% weaker than me. I was annoyed but both managers were there, both games were tough. He won on penalty. That was a respectable loss.

In another season, I played against a team 30% weaker than me, lost 2-1 even though the manager was absent. This is slot machine gaming.

Players should respect all teams, but they shouldn't be praying that their team suddenly plays like rubbish and loses to much weaker teams.

[gogs67]

Backgammon is a game of skill. If Top Eleven were a game of skill, my abandoned team wouldn't have 33 wins and only 2 defeats this season.... but it does.... so zero skills involved in an abandoned team yet, at lvl 8, it has 5 Leagues won, 2 Cups and 2 Champions Leagues. Or is your argument that most players are less skilled than an abandoned team?

Also, apart from 6 defeats, every one of those defeats felt like I was cheated.

We've gone over it before earlier on in this thread.
I've played thousands and thousands of games of backgammon and i've played T11 for 6 years, and the similarities in the way the results pan out is striking.
Both are games of skill with chance involved so there will always be losses no matter how well prepared you are.
There is nothing you can do if an opponent throws 4 pairs of 6's in a row say, that's the equivalent of a troll result, but it's how the game works
If I played the world number one at backgammon over a hundred games I'd be pretty confident of winning around 40 of them, solely on the 'random' factor of the dice. This game throws that up all the time.
If I played the chess number one a hundred times I'd be pretty confident of losing 100 times because there is no 'random' factor, it's all skill
I think people expect Top Eleven to be chess but it's actually backgammon.