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Thread: Understanding role of Luck in top eleven

  1. #21
    Champion Tactician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos View Post
    Don't stuck to the dices Tactician , I talk generally about luck and yes, luck playing a big part in football and not only.
    maybe the only "sport" that has no luck is the chess - haha.

    Many times even real football isn't realistic.

    I mean, Atletico Madrid with Saul (who ???) gonna send Bayern out of CH.L. ?
    or Leicester with Vardy (who ???) gonna win the championship ?
    or when my country Greece, won the EURO 2004 against teams like :
    Portugal of Figo, Deco and Ronaldo
    Spain of Raul, Xavi and Casillas
    France of Zidane, Henry, Vieira
    Czechs of Ceh, Nedved, Baros
    Germany of Ballack, Klose, Lahm
    Netherlands of van Nistelrooy, Davids, Seedorf
    England of Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes

    and don't tell me about tactics (of Simeone or Ranieri). Every one is trying to play with the right tactics.
    It's something else, like this Celho the writer is talking about the universe -haha
    3-4 players don't make a football team.

    If you think Greece won mainly because of 'luck', then you are wrong.

    Tactics and good man management play a huge part in football in real life.

    And again, don't try to compare something that has happen say once in a decade or two in real life, to something that happens say like 1-4 times in every season or two in this game. The same applies for injuries in this game. This is where some users or moderators or admins or people from Nordeus are wrong when they seem to come and justify things happening in this game using events that were in real life.

    'Every one is trying to play with the right tactics' This does not mean that the tactics they have used were the most appropriate ones. Also, there is a big difference between the best tactics to use in relation to what you have in your team and the best tactics to be used to counter a particular opponent.
    Last edited by Tactician; 04-29-2016 at 03:38 PM.
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  2. #22
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    I don't get how you can call something a troll result though
    Well, there are some different kinds (except the "fixed" results. I will talk about them later).
    Many times, a troll result is simple a bad "visualization" of a game.
    Some actions which are "abnormal". I call them "fail" of the program to present a game flaw.
    One of them for example is when a team has a player out with red card, it doesn't affect the game play and this team scores.

    Understanding role of Luck in top eleven-troll-red-card-goal.jpg

    Understanding role of Luck in top eleven-3-red-cards-vent.jpg


    * please Tactician, I would appreciate if you 'll not continue here the discussion about general theories. If you have some specific examples, you 're free to post and contribute too.
    Last edited by nikolgiorgos; 04-29-2016 at 03:57 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos View Post
    Well, there are some different kinds (except the "fixed" results. I will talk about them later).
    Some actions which are "ub-normal". I call them "fail" of the program to present a game flaw.
    One of them for example is when a team has a player out with red card, it doesn't affect the game play and this team scores.
    These are among my concerns in this game. So, let's talk about that.
    Last edited by Tactician; 04-29-2016 at 03:40 PM.
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  4. #24
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    One other case of troll result is when opponent is using an abnormal formation but still you can't win.
    For this case, my explanation is the Wheel of fortune. In this game, the game machine ignores totally the factor "Formation" - while in other cases is very important.
    example no1
    A friend couldn't won the "Wall" formation of a player who wanted to loose
    Understanding role of Luck in top eleven-cannot-win-wall.jpg


    example 2
    This manager playing with this formation, eliminate a team I had from CH.L. (one year ago, with the same quality of the other guy, 5-6* players, playing 4-5-1). In the next round, he disqualified because of the "away" goal.
    Again the program ignored the "illegal" formation.
    But here is something else because he played continually with that formation. So, maybe is something else like a magic recipe or "chemistry" .
    Understanding role of Luck in top eleven-goran-1.jpg

    Understanding role of Luck in top eleven-goran-2.jpg

    maybe in this case he hit the three 7s in the slot machine haha
    Last edited by nikolgiorgos; 04-29-2016 at 03:58 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Ok, so do you think it is acceptable for such a thing to be in this game? If not, then will it not be better if 'luck' had a lesser effect in this game?

    P.S: maybe your answer will be biased here because you were never really a victim of it, and especially not in important matches.
    Last edited by nikolgiorgos; 04-29-2016 at 04:23 PM.
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  6. #26
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    By the way, what you gave as explanations for the anomalies are strong possibilities.
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  7. #27
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    Given the fact that you posted something where 4-3N-2W-1 was involved, I will add some images concerning this too.



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  8. #28
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    Yeah, I see what you mean. The game engine isn't able to reflect that formation, it's probably something they should work on. It's probably someone figuring out some of the complexities of the game-mechanics to "exploit" the system, and not due to luck at all.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Nifield View Post
    Yeah, I see what you mean. The game engine isn't able to reflect that formation, it's probably something they should work on. It's probably someone figuring out some of the complexities of the game-mechanics to "exploit" the system, and not due to luck at all.
    Is this acceptable to you? Or let me put it in a more appropriate way, it this acceptable to you if you were the victim and your team got knock-out of C-L or Cup or failed to win the final because of such anomalies?

    There is definitely something 'fishy' going on. It could be intentional or it could be a malfunction or flaw. It could be due to the 'roll of dice' like Nik said, or it could be due to something else in this game or a combination of several things. For sure though, there is no football logic in the outcome of many cases that are similar to the above.
    Last edited by Tactician; 04-29-2016 at 04:17 PM.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactician View Post
    Is this acceptable to you?

    There is definitely something 'fishy' going on. It could be intentional or it could be a malfunction or flaw. It could be due to the 'roll of dice' like Nik said, or it could be due to something else in this game or a combination of several things. For sure though, there is no football logic in the outcome of many cases that are similar to the above.
    It's obviously an exploitation of game mechanics. All games have flaws and the engine isn't perfect. As I said it's definately something they should work on. I think you are looking for more than humanly possible on an online app as far as AI programming.

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