Understanding role of Luck in top eleven

[Tactician]

I'm only going into 6 now. I don't get how you can call something a troll result though. Surely you can only define a game as unwinnable if you can load up the game and try it over and over with different tactics and never win. I've had a result I thought wasn't right, but generally I missed an abnormal amount of shots and they scored their only shot or something. It happens in real life too.

And to Tactician. Luck DOES play a massive role in real life, to say that it doesn't just means that you don't watch football. How many deflected goals go in in a season? How many penalties are given that shouldn't be, or vice versa? How many times does the team get lucky and score a goal after being dominated during the end of the game? How many bad backpasses are there? How many goalkeeper fumbles? Bad defensive decisions by great players? Own goals...I could go on. These are all events you would consider as lucky or not if they happened in the game. As there aren't actually real players playing, you need some form of rolls to demonstrate real life within the game.

You are basically saying you want to take the "luck" out of the game, I'm sorry, but that is life. The "better team" doesn't always win, look at the Premier league this season, and just about any football match you want - luck plays a part. The trick is to manage your team sifficently well so that you are on the right side of attacking rolls more than on the wrong side of defensive rolls more often than not.

It is not about taking randomness out of the game. It is about how much significant it is in this game. If it is too significant, then it is not appropriate.

Also, don't come and compare this game to real life. This game is most probably an 'insult' to football in real life. There are so many things that has happened in this game that is not logic at all to football in real life.

What nonsense are you talking about? The better team (quality-wise) usually lose if it has been managed improperly or used inappropriate tactics (or at least have bad results such as draws or narrow wins), and if it is the inferior team quality-wise, it should definitely lose as there were won't be the extra quality required for covering tactical mistakes and so on. Generally, 'luck' play's only a minor role in the final outcome.

By the way, Leicester did not achieve what it has achieved so far in this season due to 'luck'. There is a lot of work, good management, tactics and so on involved in there. The so called favourites failed due to a combination of poor management, poor tactics and so on. Also, don't come and compare to what has happened once in say 1-2 decades in real life to what seems to be happening like say every season or two in this game.

Many people don't even know what they speak about; they just think things are like this are like that based on their limited knowledge about the subject.

P.S: You have probably thought that I am one of those users here that think that quality is enough to win. I assure you that if it is the case, then you are wrong. I am for tactics and football logic, and not for some nonsense, non-logical things.

[Andrew Nifield]

It is not about taking randomness out of the game. It is about how much significant it is in this game. If it is too significant, then it is not appropriate.

Also, don't come and compare this game to real life. This game is most probably an 'insult' to football in real life. There are so many things that has happened in this game that is not logic at all to football in real life.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be so negative to this game, why even bother playing? It is ONLY a game, just like football. It's not true to life, how could it be? It's a sim - not an insult.

You are making assumptions, based on information you DO NOT have. You don't know the mechanics 100%, as only the programmers do, of this game and how small things can react against eachother.

I'm pretty sure you were the one that started comparing luck in game to real life.

[Andrew Nifield]

well, that's not luck, it's reactions of the game program.
Usually it's my answer to those who 're saying that there is no game procedure, just fix results from calculations before the game.


@Andrew Nifield

yes, that's the general rule. I 'm just trying to "explore" what happening the rest of the times haha


What level are you ? maybe you 'll meet them later. It's called "troll results" but they 're not many. Maybe 1-2 during the season.
Well, I 'm not talking only for troll results but "unexpected" or "unexplainable" , like what you're saying in that post
http://forum.topeleven.com/top-eleve...al-effect.html

When you talk about level, it did make me think. Maybe as every star is % bigger earlier on, the role of luck is a lot less. As the teams level up in quality, luck may, while having the same % effect, have a large impactual effect on the game?

[nikolgiorgos]

Don't stuck to the dices Tactician , I talk generally about luck and yes, luck playing a big part in football and not only.
maybe the only "sport" that has no luck is the chess - haha.

Many times even real football isn't realistic.

I mean, Atletico Madrid with Saul (who ???) gonna send Bayern out of CH.L. ?
or Leicester with Vardy (who ???) gonna win the championship ?
or when my country Greece, won the EURO 2004 against teams like :
Portugal of Figo, Deco and Ronaldo
Spain of Raul, Xavi and Casillas
France of Zidane, Henry, Vieira
Czechs of Ceh, Nedved, Baros
Germany of Ballack, Klose, Lahm
Netherlands of van Nistelrooy, Davids, Seedorf
England of Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes

and don't tell me about tactics (of Simeone or Ranieri). Every one is trying to play with the right tactics.
It's something else, like this Celho the writer is talking about the universe -haha

[Tactician]

Don't stuck to the dices Tactician , I talk generally about luck and yes, luck playing a big part in football and not only.
maybe the only "sport" that has no luck is the chess - haha.

Many times even real football isn't realistic.

I mean, Atletico Madrid with Saul (who ???) gonna send Bayern out of CH.L. ?
or Leicester with Vardy (who ???) gonna win the championship ?
or when my country Greece, won the EURO 2004 against teams like :
Portugal of Figo, Deco and Ronaldo
Spain of Raul, Xavi and Casillas
France of Zidane, Henry, Vieira
Czechs of Ceh, Nedved, Baros
Germany of Ballack, Klose, Lahm
Netherlands of van Nistelrooy, Davids, Seedorf
England of Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes

and don't tell me about tactics (of Simeone or Ranieri). Every one is trying to play with the right tactics.
It's something else, like this Celho the writer is talking about the universe -haha

3-4 players don't make a football team.

If you think Greece won mainly because of 'luck', then you are wrong.

Tactics and good man management play a huge part in football in real life.

And again, don't try to compare something that has happen say once in a decade or two in real life, to something that happens say like 1-4 times in every season or two in this game. The same applies for injuries in this game. This is where some users or moderators or admins or people from Nordeus are wrong when they seem to come and justify things happening in this game using events that were in real life.

'Every one is trying to play with the right tactics' This does not mean that the tactics they have used were the most appropriate ones. Also, there is a big difference between the best tactics to use in relation to what you have in your team and the best tactics to be used to counter a particular opponent.

[Tactician]

By the way, what you gave as explanations for the anomalies are strong possibilities.

[Tactician]

Given the fact that you posted something where 4-3N-2W-1 was involved, I will add some images concerning this too.

[Andrew Nifield]

Yeah, I see what you mean. The game engine isn't able to reflect that formation, it's probably something they should work on. It's probably someone figuring out some of the complexities of the game-mechanics to "exploit" the system, and not due to luck at all.

[Tactician]

Yeah, I see what you mean. The game engine isn't able to reflect that formation, it's probably something they should work on. It's probably someone figuring out some of the complexities of the game-mechanics to "exploit" the system, and not due to luck at all.

Is this acceptable to you? Or let me put it in a more appropriate way, it this acceptable to you if you were the victim and your team got knock-out of C-L or Cup or failed to win the final because of such anomalies?

There is definitely something 'fishy' going on. It could be intentional or it could be a malfunction or flaw. It could be due to the 'roll of dice' like Nik said, or it could be due to something else in this game or a combination of several things. For sure though, there is no football logic in the outcome of many cases that are similar to the above.

[Andrew Nifield]

Is this acceptable to you?

There is definitely something 'fishy' going on. It could be intentional or it could be a malfunction or flaw. It could be due to the 'roll of dice' like Nik said, or it could be due to something else in this game or a combination of several things. For sure though, there is no football logic in the outcome of many cases that are similar to the above.

It's obviously an exploitation of game mechanics. All games have flaws and the engine isn't perfect. As I said it's definately something they should work on. I think you are looking for more than humanly possible on an online app as far as AI programming.