Niko.
Whats your experience with academy players, are they generally fast trainers?
Got a 80% GK today for 14T that im tempted to train up and keep for many seasons to come.
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Niko.
Whats your experience with academy players, are they generally fast trainers?
Got a 80% GK today for 14T that im tempted to train up and keep for many seasons to come.
At the old times (before the update of the academy players), for the most expensive players it was almost a guarantee that the higher (token) value players were very fast trainers.
Now it's not sure.
I have an example here #385
https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...ainers-39.html
were my 14T player isn't a 1st class fast trainer, but 2nd class.
Meaning the 1st gets 5 skills, the 2nd gets 4 skills (avg/training).
But still he isn't slow trainer.
Some more examples of academy players here
https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...e-help-me.html
tips
* if you want to add sa, give one to one, not penalty specialist. It's better.
Gonna cost about 40-50 greens.
And do it now, not after giving skills to quality.
** If you re gonna make power-training, avoid to use him in the next days.
Usually hard training players don't perform well and I guess you have some critical games ahead.
Cheers Niko!
I won't use him until next season so will add SA the moment the new season start, then train him.
I did 4x goalkeeper training and he gained 4 skills. Haven't been arsed testing more yet, just got him today, but that seems promising.
EDIT :
And while on the subject. Is penalty saver even working? My current GK is one. I got a penalty against me last week and there was no sign during simulation that he is penalty saver.
I didn't make much of that until yesterday.
Then i got a penalty myself, the opposing GK was a one on one, and that sign was shown during the penalty... Odd?
Hey Niko,
did i get it right, that the gain in skills by training depends (besides other factors) on the Star-Level of the player but NOT on the level of the skill itself?
For example:
A 5* player has a greater gaining in Skills (for example: "Speed") than a 6* Player.
BUT
A 5*Player with the Skill "Speed" at 210% gains as much as a 5* Player with only 90% Speed-Skill
Is that correct?
yes correctQuote:
A 5*Player with the Skill "Speed" at 210% gains as much as a 5* Player with only 90% Speed-Skill
Is that correct?
proof ?
many (18 yo) young fast trainers, after 2-3 seasons of power-training, usually have abnormal skills
For example a ST could have 300% at shooting/ finishing and 30% at tackling.
So yes, he will have the same progress with a new 18 yo (same q) fast trainer with balanced skills.
thank you für the answer!
p70 LV30
End of an era
So this season (92) old version is no longer available.
Not only this but we have a new auction system.
That means many things of this guide have changed.
The critical ones are :
All the players are "nordgens" now (but not all are fast trainers).
We can find nordgens and possible fast trainers, every time of the day.
So what we can do ? Not much, buy and try.
Yesterday (1st day of the season) I bought a young MC, at night time (22.00) with 1 token.
I can say by accident, I didn't want him :p
Attachment 81699
So I made a test, using a set that gives -15% condition loss.
Used it 4 times and gave 7+3+4+3=17 skills, so about 4 old s.p.
A prove of a fast trainer.
And then I sold him with about the same price (also to a bot team).
Attachment 81700
Hi nik, this is a screenshot of my 0T academy MC, whom I sign today and run same drill exactly same way you did on above [#447]; gain 4+3+6+5=18 skills, -15% CL, What do you think :)Quote:
Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos
Attachment 82094
btw, only 'stretch' drill is 2 whistle and rest drills on the set were world class [stretch+PGS+FCA+PTP+ST+SD]
Attachment 82097
main downside for this player is low Q, need tons of green :(
For sure he is a slow trainer (for his age).
My player got those skills while he is a (high) 5* player when yours is 2*
The lower the stars, the more must be the gaining.
So Molina should hit not less than 7 skills (avg) in every pack, to consider him as a fast trainer.
I would try to make him 39% quality (for negotiation list) and maybe if have some descent offer of 2-3 T to sell him.
* without spending extra greens for him.
That's I'm going to do because selling players on TM is pain now.
Thanks
Stretch + P, G & S! + Fast C-Attacks + Press the Play + Shooting Tech + Slalom Dribble
2 + 2 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 4 = 20 training experience points
Gustav Westin – 91% (167) – 31 level (drills level word class)
20 * 1.3 (level word class) = 26 tep
7 + 3 + 4 + 3 = 17% skill -> (26 * 4) / 17 = 6.11
Tam Molina – 29% (37) – 7 level (drills level NO word class)
20 * 1.0 = 20 tep
4 + 3 + 6 + 5 = 18% skill -> (20 * 4) / 18 = 4.44
Forget about% condition, the old version is closed
PS. Used google translator
so... i have log in around the time reset (4-5 am gmt) i found a lot of good players (looking by quality + age+ market value). if i focused market value , for example a gk 18 y.o. with market value at 5M (qlty of 4.5*) noone bought him...
but in that same auction there was a mc player 26 y.o. at 2.45M (qlty 5.8*) EVERYONE bid for him... his price end up around 5.6M at the end...
what am i missing? if i tap the players and see quality: ***** 98% (34) -> that is an example, gk was at (33) mc i dont remember i think he was (35)
well, in the first levels there are some issues.
The teams don't have enough money (for example a LV1 team has 5 M' when only two fast trainers has about the same value) and cannot earn easily money.
So every one is after high 5* players with low value.
Why someone gives half of his budget for a GK (who isn't even a high 5* player) ?
i would agree totally with you, but managers are lvl 20 and above...
their team value is over 2B, and budget over 200M...
i can try and take some pics in todays reset :P
in all honesty idk why am i bidding with them... my budget is 4M, my team value 35M and i am manager lvl 3 XDD
if you see this post #172Quote:
their team value is over 2B, and budget over 200M...
https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...ainers-18.html
you can realize that 200 M' aren't enough for a team LV20.
There, one young player can have the value of 100 M'.
So this manager can buy only two expensive players like the young GK of your post.
so from now on i will contesting at auction with manager with budget 100 times more than mine, and manager lvl over 10 times ?
not well planned so i think
no, you didn't understand how it works yet.
Anyway, as it's out of topic, read this
https://forum.topeleven.com/top-elev...-auctions.html
and we continue there if you want
How can I find fast trainers in this new transfer market? Should I just buy 18/19 y.o. players who have the highest possible price (90+% overall) and lower wage compared to other similar players?
In low-mid levels yes, that's the logic.
In higher levels where all the players have about the same price, the only thing is to buy and try.
p71 LV31
Hard to find the fast trainers
After some seasons staying in LV30, this season I 'm playing at LV31.
Very difficult to spot the fast trainers in the new version.
Checking the summary, I could see that top player have 114 M' but this is hidden.
The young ones have 113 M'.
I bought some players so let's see
Torrao and Daniel have the value of 113 M' (the wage is the same).
I 'll give them extra position and s.a.
We can see that they can get about +1 for every set with -15% condition loss.
They are fast trainers
Attachment 84031
Attachment 84032
Godic and Zachoval also are going for an extra s.a. and position.
But they have a delay of gaining for this set of drills with also -15 condition loss.
Obviously because the have 112 M' value.
Attachment 84033
Attachment 84034
So with a repeated training, they gain less than the first two,
Attachment 84035
So after the same power-training, Torrao already got his new position
Daniel gonna get it (49)
Godic has 44 so he needs about 6 more greens
Zachoval has 39 so he needs about 12 more greens.
Attachment 84036
p72 LV32
The Myth of the GK training trick
Level 32 as i promoted (won the treble) so looking for some new players.
It seems that the expensive and top fast trainers are now at 114 M'
- but couldn't find many as now we don't have the hint of the hour (after the daily maintenance) and all the players are nordgen.
Attachment 85264
I 'm following an international T11 fb group and there is a popular thread about how one player is earning a lot of skills after some (only) GK drills.
Now, where is the Myth ...
Maybe it's happening but as I wrote a lot of times in this thread, the purpose is to find a fast trainer and give him some good high quality (of 7*) without spending a fortune.
Ok, in my example I spent 30 greens to a new young player, Resebrink , for some GK trick training and 30 greens for the normal training.
Those are the results of the usual power training
Attachment 85266
and those are the results of the GK "trick".
I spent 30 greens to give some sets with GK drill when a player doesn't gain anything and in the last training (in some other drill), he 's earning a lot of skills.
Attachment 85265
In that case, Resebrink earned less skills.
So, with the GK "trick" a player is earning less ?
Maybe not.
Because there is also a role dice at training, which can affect the result and in some cases we can have better or worst results by luck.
But still, with this trick we aren't saving greens.
It's the same thing.
Meanwhile, we may get screwed with that trick because after the GK training sets and before the final (useful) training if something happen and we lost connection, we 're gonna loose those last super results and it will be a normal training of 2-3 skills.
In my case, after finishing the first (normal) training, Resebrink had 99% quality and found himself at negotiation list so I had an offer - lol
At that time (and before start the GK drills) I had a connection loss (probably because I had him for training and also had an offer for him).
Attachment 85267
So be careful with that.
As I often use GK drill for power training, because I have it on world class lvl and some drills not, I guess:
1) there is a random factor, as sometimes the outcome from single drills can differ. I.e. many times GK, then pass-go-shoot, can have an outcome like 25-20-23
2) Nik, your try with GK drills must have been after normal training? Seems like the efficiency falls with growing overall q. If I train a player from 50-60% on, there is a verx huge difference to the state where he is over 80%.
GK training is just a "spring" you push and let it go after. Nothing "magic".
All the other factors about training remain the same
- A young player 18-21 y.o. will have much more gaining than an olders
- Not all the young players are fast trainers. There are classes
- The quality of the player matters (a 4*-5* gaining more than a 5*-6* who is gaining more than a 6*-7*)
- The level of the drill affects
- The "white" color skills gaining more
Where I find useful the GK training trick is for a massive power training.
If you have for example 7-8 players to train and some 200-300 greens to spend, you can set them in GK drills all together and then take the defenders and give them one "Press the play", the wingers "Wing play" and MC or ST what else you want.
All my drills are world class, any drill lower than 3% CL I combine with GK drill; Like: 5 GK drills + 1 skill drill or
5 Gk drills + 1 'stop the attackers' drill
p73 LV32
The Myth of the GK training trick - Part II
Another example of what not to do !
(this and my post above are connected with this thread too - https://forum.topeleven.com/top-elev...eleven-22.html #216 )
So this manager found and bought this player , a low 4* player but with 3 positions an a useful s.a.
Attachment 85515
and he set him in this GK training trick (from 79 greens, went to 24)
Attachment 85516
Attachment 85517
the final drill, where he got 36 old skill points
Attachment 85518
and still has a low 5* player
Attachment 85519
So you have been warned, don't do that :o
* pics are from the relative video
*
the funny part is that this video is "fake" (when showing the player as 5* - last pic above)
This player gained quality of about 117,... but at the end showing him as 120 q - big lol
Attachment 85522
**
So what are we doing in a case like this ?
This player is special.
He has 3 positions and a useful special ability.
So the only thing he needs is some extra power-training.
But the problem is that he is slow trainer. In a case like this with a possible “gem”, before start feeding him greens and start the GK training trick, we set three to five times a set with 5 relative drills.
In this case, as he is a defender, we set 5 X press the play (total condition loss -15%)and repeat the exercise 3-5 times.
If he earned 12 skills or more for 3 times (or 20 skills for 5 times) then he is a fast trainer and we can invest our precious green packs.
If he earned less than 15 skills, then he isn’t a fast trainer and we must decide what to do (except wasting our greens to him). Set him for negotiations list or keep him for a 5* golden sub.
The same procedure we ‘re doing for any new young player we get.
Remember the rule – 4 skills (or more) avg for a -15/18% condition loss set of drills > fast trainer.
p74 LV32
Building a treble team
In this post I 'll talk a little about strategy and plans.
So this post is also connected with this - the road to success
https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...in-cup-25.html
Day 1 of the new season (my LV32) and the team is like this.
Attachment 85645
7 6* players who finished as 7* players in previous season (ZICO was from my older team which was tanking for many seasons and finished with 8* players).
The other 7 players are 0T academy youngsters . Many of them are less than the visual 1* so the avg of the team was low 4* the new season.
My League draw was vs very weak, semi-abandoned teams.
You can see them here #5
https://forum.topeleven.com/team-sho...ik-oranie.html
so League is secured from day 0.
Also I 'm playing in a Cup and CH.L. with -1 lv and same level opponents but not any strong team.
So with a starting team of 5*-6* players and finishing as 7*, I can have great chances for the treble.
Day 2 and the team is ready.
Attachment 85646
When I get my team set, I 'm making the plans for the next season.
So to decide which player I 'm gonna keep at the end of the season and who gonna sell the last day.
To whom I can invest my packs for development or extra positions or s.a.
I 'm making first the test (see the above post, last lines) to detect who is fast trainer, who is 2nd class fast trainer and who is slow.
And then I add positions if needed to have a team that I can play any formation I want (except DML-DMR positions).
You can see that with 15 players squad, I can play whatever I want but mostly my favorite formation 4-5-1V, even if one or two of my players are out after booking.
I don't have a 2nd good q GK. Never needed one.
In the pic you can see the player with the small orange circle, are from previous season.
The players in the green color box are the players I 'll keep for the next season too.
it's gonna be 8+ 6 low q players for a better draw.
The players with the red stripe will leave the team the last day of the season.
Those are 4 of the new players I bought.
Attachment 85647
Now lets see one by one.
SCHRIVERS the GK : bought with this s.a. with 5 tokens.
I don't believe in GKs role so I 'm not gonna spent any extra green for him.
Only the regular training when he has a full condition
POORTLIET : I gave 19 tokens, young with 3 positions and fast trainer. Spend also 45 greens for his new s.a.
he 's gonna be 7* at the end of the season without spending much.
RISBERGEN : I bought him from negotiations with 5 tokens.
He was my third proposition. Fortunately the first two (also defenders with "wall" ), didn't respond to my offers.
He is gonna leave at the end of the season. No empty room for him as I already have many young defenders with triple role and sa.
No extra training.
KROLL : Very fast trainer. He is ready from previous season. Just to do some extra training for development.
HULSHOFF : Good positions and s.a. but he is 21 y.o. already so next season he 's gonna slow down at training and I have other younger defenders.
NEESKENS : Ready from previous season. Fast trainer, no need for extra training to finish as 7* player.
MUHREN : A new AML-ML I bought with 8 tokens (if I remember well - I couldn't keep a pic). Also added MC position and C-K sa. Fast trainer, I spent some extra greens and spend more to increase his quality. But he is a "key" player and gonna stay in the team for the next 4 seasons.
JANSEN : A scout list player I bought for 54 tokens. The "investment" of the season. But he has already high q so no extra training for him.
CRUYFF : A new star, ready from previous season. Some extra training for quality.
RESEBRINK : Fast trainer. Bought as AMR for 7 tokens. Possible "key" player. I invested extra greens for ST position (but gonna be his backup role) and F-K.
REP : Bought with 13 tokens. Also gave him "One to one" sa. Well, the question mark of the season.
VAN DE KERKHOF : Ready from previous season, some extra training for quality.
HAAN : Bought with 25 tokens . Expensive (I think he was my first sign of the season - lol) but he is 99% and has 2 useful positions.
A golden sub.
SURBIER : Ready from previous season. 3 positions and sa. Some extra training for quality oly.
ZICO : A veteran from my old team. As I was in the same LV for 5 seasons, he became +8* . His last season in the team.
No extra training.
The advantage of having a small roster, is that those players are earning anyway from their official games.
Now let's talk about the training.
In this case, the GK trick is very useful to earn time.
I take all the players I want to train and give them some training with GK drills.
5 drills X -3% condition loss = 15% condition (I prefer 5 and not 6 drills because I can handle better the replenish of the greens and when the player is near the end of his new role or s.a.).
The players who are in position or s.a. development, earn from that anyway.
One set must give +1 (avg) for a good trainer.
The other players are "saving" hidden development .
After some time, I decide that for players ABC I gave enough greens, remove them from the list and continue with XYZ for development and UVW for extra position/ s.a.
Then I take the players A,X,Y who are defenders plus UVW (continue their roles) and give "Press the play" to increase their defending skills.
After that I take B,C,Z players who are attackers (plus UVW) and give them "Winger attack" which increasing their attacking skills.
That's the first part of power-training. Later I 'll see if there is need for some extra.
Also daily I make a set of the two easy/ very easy drills of the 3 categories (which gives -6,75 % condition) with a combination of the X2 bonus so to have the 40% training bonus.
At the end of the season, the basic squad has 7* quality so the next season, starting again from 6* also finishing at 7* without spending a fortune.
So, are we ready for the 12th treble ?
...
I think you're more than ready, Chris. I like your passion, your detailed analysis and so much knowledge about all in this game. Unfortunately, I don't have so much time do to or to think about this things... I'm sure you'll make fun of me, but due to my limited time, I buy scouts, I invest 100-200 Euro every month and hope for the best. I won 3 trebles in last 3 seasons and going for 4th in this season. I used almost the same team for this 3 seasons because they did a good job and I'm satisfied with them. What do you think? How should I go on playing? Need your experience and if you are kind, some advices. Thanks!
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well, I cannot say to someone how to play (specially if he can afford your way).
As a matter of fact, previous season I was thinking to play that way.
To keep my 7 high q players and buy 6-7 scout list players.
But I was disappointed from the scout's update.
My team NIK is very wealthy and could do that but when I saw the list, I said - No way I 'll buy those players.
You know, an old DL, penalty specialist for 55 tokens.
I told that in a private chat with a nord-guy.
"Oh c'mon , you know that I have a lot of tokens but really no will to buy from that list. If it was a list with players like the recommended (double positions, young) , yeah why not to spend some."
I think that would be great to see scout players, not from 18 y old, but alt least 20...i dont say that they are no good at 22,but after 1-2 seasons, they train slower... Of course they have a answer now with the scout list update, but still would be great to see players starting at least at 20 y old.
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Scout players are crap (for training I mean).
But recommended it's worthy.
Specially those 19 y.o. ST-AMx with some good s.a. .
Unfortunately you can't have them when you want or what option you need.
Another GK training test for my ST J. REP (I can see that he is a 2nd class fast trainer).
20 greens for this set
Attachment 85894
20 more greens for this.
I saw in his "final" set that he earned those skills only from the box-drill of "Shooting" and not any from "Wing play"
Attachment 85895
So for another time I can't see any advantage of the trick.
Also in another test, i confirmed (paying 4-5 greens for nothing :rolleyes: ), that if there is some connection loss, the "hidden" gaining of the previous GK drills is lost.
So it's very risky to spend so many greens and have some interruption before the last useful drill set.
p75 LV33
A recommended player
So this season I had a recommended player but it was in the first days where my team quality wasn't high so I had a 5* player.
He has lower quality than the usual 118% and the 79 tokens.
As he had two good positions and s.a.I got him.
Attachment 86939
Some extra training now.
I used two training.
One the classic and the other with GK trick.
Used about 30 greens for each training style.
The result f the simple training was better.
Got 96 skills instead of 86 of the GK trick (:rolleyes: )
Attachment 86940
Attachment 86941
Attachment 86942
Ok , De Jong is a fast trainer but prefer to had him as a 118% player even if I had to spend some tokens extra.
Specially now that we cant see so many vids for free boosters.
p76 LV33
Value jump
This season I 'm at LV33 so we have a weird situation.
It's about the values transformation.
As we can see (from #172 https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...ainers-18.html ),
lv 32- max q179 - max 115M WAGE 45M
lv 33- max q184 - max 126M WAGE 47M
lv 34- max q189 - max 127M WAGE 47M
the value jumps from 115 (max) to 126.
This season I bought 3 scout list players and when they became 7* players, their value went to 126.
The same will happen to all the other players when they 'll be also 7*.
Interesting :p
Attachment 87040
So I decided to spend some greens to my "fast trainer" ( I hope he is :D ).
Trained from 101% - 118% and also added FK specialist SA.
What to do next ? Add some new positions to him or just train him as much as I can afford...
I have heard, that if this kind of player will reach 7* , then hes training will slow down....
Attachment 87225
@GloryHinter is right.
First position & sa and then quality.
Now extra greens for new position is waste.
But in two tanking seasons he can get a free one so I would recommend MR, AMC or ST.
Hi. Let me just give you one piece of information: the scout player (free) that nordeus gave us with this new system is a very SLOW trainer. LOL. I've got a 22 y.o. DMC-DC with 7* and FK s.a. (real good player), and decided to do the tests.
Result: trained 4 times with 18 condition loss, and just gained 4 ab.!! Really crap!
But this case raised me a doubt.
I know that 18/19 y.o gain abilities always faster that 22/23 y.o (and so on...), but is there such a difference like my example, or my scout player is a slow trainer?
One more to nikolgiorgos:
- in 4 training runs, when I get an average of 4 and above is considered a fast trainer, right?
- and when I get an average of 6 or above? It's a very fast trainer?
Thank you all! :)
I think 4 training sets are small sample to detect if a player is a fast trainer.