How are results determined?

[Marc Symons]

Lets get this straight i said "Its extremely LIKELY that the result is simulated before the game". I didn't say is definetly is.
Lets for arguments sake say that the result is simulated before Kickoff, It simulates a 3-0 result and picks 3 times 20Th min, 45th min, and the 90th min. The game starts and the commentary kicks in. Now the commentary has a set amount of different scenarios and they are left with gaps in them, those gaps are generated at the time at which each piece of commentary is randomly selected and players currently on the pitch are put into those gaps. you make subs in the 70th min and the goal in the 90th min goes in and the commentary is randomly generated and again players currently on the pitch is selected to fill the gaps.

This is how a game that uses a system that simulates the result before a game works.

On the other hand T11 may not use this system and it is more difficult but very possible to let the game simulate as it goes. However if this did happen i would expect different results to what i see. For example, often my opposition has a player sent of and 2 injured and he is not watching the game and no subs are made. I do for some reason not start running away with the game? This is one POSSIBILITY how games could be pre-simulated. Again these are theories not facts.

SOURCE: Distinction in game engines: subject - Football Manager.

[gogs67]

Good thread, some decent insights.
So.....if a game result is predetermined then what happens if, right after kick off, you move all your team out of position and play an illegal formation I wonder? Could you still win, as that was what was going to happen anyway?
Already played a game today, but will try this in the league tomorrow and get back to you.

[Celtic]

Once I scheduled a friendly by mistake and I tried hard to lose in order to not upset my unaware friend even more.

He had a stronger team and as soon as the game started I subbed all my players replacing them with the poorest I had and in illegal formations...

The worst I played the more I would come back and score goals, game went into extra time, penalties and his team finally won.

But guess what, penalties were already scored if you watched the game elsewhere, exit and return immediately.

Seems pretty much decided from start to me. The penalties are for sure.

It would be nice if someone records it in video before they no longer let you see.

[elite91]

Good thread, some decent insights.
So.....if a game result is predetermined then what happens if, right after kick off, you move all your team out of position and play an illegal formation I wonder? Could you still win, as that was what was going to happen anyway?
Already played a game today, but will try this in the league tomorrow and get back to you.

I was coming to post the same !
We need more test with different levels,different Tactics !

[Cat Harrison]

I am not so sure, really I don't think it's predetermined.

I have made subs and changes that have lost me games, I am convinced of it. Especially on my baby 35T team, when I over manage I LOSE. Changing formation also seems to be a bad idea most of the time.

I also think being there makes a difference (not necessarily for the better as I just said though) I have made subs for injured guys that scored and won games for me.. how could that be predecided>? and I have felt that some orders changes have had impacts as well.

Rvgtje, plaats dan in het Engels

[Ian Myers]

I am not so sure, really I don't think it's predetermined.

I have made subs and changes that have lost me games, I am convinced of it. Especially on my baby 35T team, when I over manage I LOSE. Changing formation also seems to be a bad idea most of the time.

I also think being there makes a difference (not necessarily for the better as I just said though) I have made subs for injured guys that scored and won games for me.. how could that be predecided>? and I have felt that some orders changes have had impacts as well.

Rvgtje, plaats dan in het Engels

Kind of agree with that to a degree. If I'm struggling in a game I try to tweak things in order to take control of the game. I'd say more often than not the little changes do tend to make a change, for good and bad at times.

Agree with the over managing too - was pissing a cup tie 2-0 and battering the opponent, with about 20 minutes left I put a midfielder on for a striker thinking I would just consolidate the 2-0 lead. The opponent who barely had any chances pulled it back to 2-2. Now this may indeed have been pre-determined, but I noticed that as soon as I went more negative the opponent came into the game more.

I'm as sceptical as they come when it comes to thinking Nordeus are just a big conspiracy intent on getting our money but I think the game engine mainly works on the basis of certain players/formations/tactics all being in place. I think that it has a pre-determined outcome for various scenarios.

Some examples (in my head) of this could be for instance - If neither manager is present and a certain team plays 4-4-2 for example it'll be 3-2 to the home side. Whereas if one sides manager is present and he decides to change to 4-3-3 then it'll be 3-1.

Little things such as that I think all make a difference.

Although I do beleive trolls still occur from time to time

[CarlTaut]

we will never discover the truth about how nge works, but we can guess how definitely isnt working...
For sure the game does a first simulation of the result in the 3 minutes before the games. Otherwise why isnt possible to change formations or players in those minutes?
After that simulation a first result comes out. That result definitively isnt the final result. If you start a game with a strong 11 and you change soon to illegal oop you can lose badly even if not always... this is a proof that the game simulates again after few minutes. I dont know how many times the game does that during the match. I can think that the game simulates 3 times, since the simulation before the match begins 3 minutes before KO and the match stands for 9 minutes. So it is possible that the engine simulates 3 times: 3 minutes before match, at 30' and at 60' (Or maybe 4 times at 15',45' and 75')...
Now, about the commentary... if u sub a player it takes few minutes to be seen in the commentary... but subs dont happen all the times at same minutes. they just happen randomly after the button is clicked... so there are 2 possibilities: 1) the commentary reflects engine. If it is like that the game does a lot of simulations during the match... i dont think it is what happens, since presimulation takes 3 minutes...
2) the commentary is live and reflect your changes, but doesnt reflect the engine. I mean is separated.... More than possible. But, yes there is a but... sometimes happen that u sub a player and then u take a goal immediately... this lead people to think they made a wrong sub, and, at the same time, lead people to think that engine and commentary arent separated....
So, we have again 2 options: A) nge and commentary arent separated, B) they are separated. I can only think that if it isnt A(and i dont think it is A, because of point 1)), then it is like this: Commentary and nge are separated. Nge decides some portions of time in which the teams will score... but doesnt decide the exact minutes... that is randomly chosen from commentary simulations.

[Saransh Vatsa]

we will never discover the truth about how nge works, but we can guess how definitely isnt working...
For sure the game does a first simulation of the result in the 3 minutes before the games. Otherwise why isnt possible to change formations or players in those minutes?
After that simulation a first result comes out. That result definitively isnt the final result. If you start a game with a strong 11 and you change soon to illegal oop you can lose badly even if not always... this is a proof that the game simulates again after few minutes. I dont know how many times the game does that during the match. I can think that the game simulates 3 times, since the simulation before the match begins 3 minutes before KO and the match stands for 9 minutes. So it is possible that the engine simulates 3 times: 3 minutes before match, at 30' and at 60' (Or maybe 4 times at 15',45' and 75')...
Now, about the commentary... if u sub a player it takes few minutes to be seen in the commentary... but subs dont happen all the times at same minutes. they just happen randomly after the button is clicked... so there are 2 possibilities: 1) the commentary reflects engine. If it is like that the game does a lot of simulations during the match... i dont think it is what happens, since presimulation takes 3 minutes...
2) the commentary is live and reflect your changes, but doesnt reflect the engine. I mean is separated.... More than possible. But, yes there is a but... sometimes happen that u sub a player and then u take a goal immediately... this lead people to think they made a wrong sub, and, at the same time, lead people to think that engine and commentary arent separated....
So, we have again 2 options: A) nge and commentary arent separated, B) they are separated. I can only think that if it isnt A(and i dont think it is A, because of point 1)), then it is like this: Commentary and nge are separated. Nge decides some portions of time in which the teams will score... but doesnt decide the exact minutes... that is randomly chosen from commentary simulations.

I dunno if u guys have notices or not but when u make a sub, then for about a minute in game, ur possession bar goes in favor of ur opponent. like if the bar was like showing 60% possession, then about a minute before the sub coming in, it closes down to the middle at about 50-50%. I am of cource talking of the commentary bar and not the overall possession bar. and it is usually at this time that u concede that after-sub goal if u do concede it afterall. What can be the possible explaination fot this??? Does the game really get simulated every time u make a sub???

[CarlTaut]

I dunno if u guys have notices or not but when u make a sub, then for about a minute in game, ur possession bar goes in favor of ur opponent. like if the bar was like showing 60% possession, then about a minute before the sub coming in, it closes down to the middle at about 50-50%. I am of cource talking of the commentary bar and not the overall possession bar. and it is usually at this time that u concede that after-sub goal if u do concede it afterall. What can be the possible explaination fot this??? Does the game really get simulated every time u make a sub???

i told ya... it can be like this, lets do an example: i do a sub at 56'... lets say the game does 3 times the simulation during live matches at 15' at 45' and at 75'... at 45' the game decides 1 goals for your opp in the minutes between 45' and 75'... but doesnt decide the exact minute. The commentary will do that, picking random actions... so you sub at 59', the commentary take your action to decide to let the other team score at 60', so you imagine to have impact ingame, but in reality the other team would have scored anyways between 45' and 75'...

[Visionary S]

we will never discover the truth about how nge works, but we can guess how definitely isnt working...
For sure the game does a first simulation of the result in the 3 minutes before the games. Otherwise why isnt possible to change formations or players in those minutes?
After that simulation a first result comes out. That result definitively isnt the final result. If you start a game with a strong 11 and you change soon to illegal oop you can lose badly even if not always... this is a proof that the game simulates again after few minutes. I dont know how many times the game does that during the match. I can think that the game simulates 3 times, since the simulation before the match begins 3 minutes before KO and the match stands for 9 minutes. So it is possible that the engine simulates 3 times: 3 minutes before match, at 30' and at 60' (Or maybe 4 times at 15',45' and 75')...
Now, about the commentary... if u sub a player it takes few minutes to be seen in the commentary... but subs dont happen all the times at same minutes. they just happen randomly after the button is clicked... so there are 2 possibilities: 1) the commentary reflects engine. If it is like that the game does a lot of simulations during the match... i dont think it is what happens, since presimulation takes 3 minutes...
2) the commentary is live and reflect your changes, but doesnt reflect the engine. I mean is separated.... More than possible. But, yes there is a but... sometimes happen that u sub a player and then u take a goal immediately... this lead people to think they made a wrong sub, and, at the same time, lead people to think that engine and commentary arent separated....
So, we have again 2 options: A) nge and commentary arent separated, B) they are separated. I can only think that if it isnt A(and i dont think it is A, because of point 1)), then it is like this: Commentary and nge are separated. Nge decides some portions of time in which the teams will score... but doesnt decide the exact minutes... that is randomly chosen from commentary simulations.

Maybe every 15 minutes 15,30,45,60. New calculations.