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Thread: Understanding role of Luck in top eleven

  1. #41
    Elite Tactician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos View Post
    I 'm not sure if I can explain it through the program but most from my experience.
    some examples -
    As I wrote some times, usually my team is based in a group of young fast trainers, starting the season as (high) 5* (end) and ending the season as (high) 6*.
    I keep this for some seasons till they get older so I refresh the roster.
    Many times happened to me, to play vs a strong team with many players from scout list (you can recognize those players). and won rather easily.
    I also observed teams like that, loosing from other lower q teams (in different competitions).
    So, you just can't buy today 11 scout list players (or simple players from the market) and expect from them to perform good immediately.
    Also if you have 5-6 defenders with double positions (DR-DC, DL-DC), it's good to find in what line you must set them .
    Also I observed some super players I had and sold, they did really bad in their new teams.
    Ok. I see what you mean, and I have observed things similar to that. Now, read the following, and you tell me what you think.

    Consider a player, P1. P1 is a 5 star 'nordgen' listed in the auction market.

    Team A buys him. In his first season, he performed poorly. In the next season, he was poor again. Team A puts P1 on the auction market.

    Team B - a team from the same level as Team A - buys him. In his first season, P1 performs well. In his second season, P1 continues to perform well.

    A possible explanation: there is something that regulates how a player will perform for a particular team. The switch is done after each transfer. Taking the above as example, P1 was made inferior significantly (decreased in % efficiency or something else) when he was bought initially, but he was made back or closer to his visible quality after the second transfer. This switch could be a random switch.


    Now, lets talk about 'team chemistry'.
    Do you think there could be such a thing as 'team chemistry' in this game when you yourself have agreed to a certain extent that the age, the preferred foot, and the nationality of a player are just visual, that is they have no effect in terms of performance of the player?
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  2. #42
    Champion madflo19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos View Post
    I 'm not sure if I can explain it through the program but most from my experience.
    some examples -
    As I wrote some times, usually my team is based in a group of young fast trainers, starting the season as (high) 5* (end) and ending the season as (high) 6*.
    I keep this for some seasons till they get older so I refresh the roster.
    Many times happened to me, to play vs a strong team with many players from scout list (you can recognize those players). and won rather easily.
    I also observed teams like that, loosing from other lower q teams (in different competitions).
    So, you just can't buy today 11 scout list players (or simple players from the market) and expect from them to perform good immediately.
    Also if you have 5-6 defenders with double positions (DR-DC, DL-DC), it's good to find in what line you must set them .
    Also I observed some super players I had and sold, they did really bad in their new teams.
    I agree with you 100%
    This is the 5th season for my first 11(young fast trainers),first season was not so good,second in the league,won ch l.,early out from the cup.
    2nd,3rd and 4th season i won 8 cups(league,ch.l. and cup)
    I think this is a must in t11,to have at least 6,7players for more than 1 season in your team and after you will see the results

    Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

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  3. #43
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    Ok, let's move this thread a little.
    I was saying about "chemistry" of the team.
    Some more examples
    Here, post #24, example 2
    http://forum.topeleven.com/top-eleve...-eleven-3.html
    that team had a very successful season (semi of CH.L. , 2nd in his league) playing with this weird formation.
    maybe because he found some good chemistry.

    - A team full of scout list players, usually doesn't have a good chemistry.

    - A team playing from the flanks from a long time, doesn't have the "chemistry" to play from the middle (4-3-3, 4-4-2 ND) in one game.

    - If a team has some specific players, has better chemistry playing in attack mod than defense (or the opposite)

    - A new player we buy,can change (to + or -) the chemistry of a team

    - Some asymmetrical (not balanced ) formations, can have a good "chemistry"

    * those above are examples and not a rule or common to see
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  4. #44
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    Many times here in the forum we 're talking about "fix" results.
    let me explain what I mean by this (a personal opinion).
    The game always using a calculation for a game but

    - Fix results can happen when a manager-team,whatever does in a game, those actions are multiplay by a roll dice of 1-1, 1-2 while opponent's maybe is a 6-6

    - Some other times, the game calculation just ignores some factors.

    Here is an experiment I did for a whole season.
    http://forum.topeleven.com/%CE%95%CE...ix-result.html
    The calculation of the game here, ignores that I made a sub, switching my 5* GK with a 1* ST in about 25% of my games.
    If want to explore and understand more the game, you can read it.
    it's big but interesting (and it's in Greeks and English too).

    Of course we must realize that when we 're watching a "live" game, the calculations already have done from the program and now we 're watching the results of that.
    This is a thread I post, from my early levels.
    I was biting my nails when the result was already decided
    http://forum.topeleven.com/top-eleve...y-day-cup.html
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  5. #45
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    Some times, this "fix" - troll results, has the expression in game where two teams have a big difference in quality.
    Even if the manager with the high q team use the right formation, changing things during the game and all the blah, blah, blah
    the roll dice is too strong.
    Here is a game of our super-moderator here in the forum, PricopCatalin
    Understanding role of Luck in top eleven-pricop-troll-11-23.jpg
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  6. #46
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    @Nikolgiorgos do you work at nordeus mate?

  7. #47
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    To my credit I changed tactics immediately after conceding, but the obviously the effect was not immediate. In a cup tie I lost 1:2 at home playing defensive and won 0:6 away simply by switching to offensive. I feel like the algorithm might work like this in a continuum
    well, sometimes, this "algorithm" can't change during the game, even if you take dramatic decisions or tweak everything.
    Sometimes it can.
    It's like you 're in a cockpit of a jumbo or airbus, with thousands buttons.
    You don't know (or not sure) what exactly every button is doing but you see that the airplane is heading towards a mountain.
    So , you just must do something. If the wheel isn't following you, than you just switch on-off buttons.
    Some times, you save the plain, sometimes not - LOL

    Another important thing I speak for first time it's the instinct.
    A player many times have a "feeling", a sixth sense that something is wrong (or something gonna be alright).
    Some times I take decisions by my instinct.
    Example.
    I started this season with NIK F.C. playing vs a weak opo in the Cup.
    Much better q team, condition-morale ok, the right formation (facing all his attacker-dangerous player and trying to take the advantage from the flanks).
    Watching the game with some supporters, what else ?
    Nothing . Started with defense-counter-flanks, in the 2nd half, switched to attack, nothing again.
    Understanding role of Luck in top eleven-cup-1st-game-1.jpg


    I had to do something better than this in the second leg.
    My instinct said - 'You did all the right things. There is nothing else to do, so why not let your team playing in auto ? "
    And that's what I did (even if I 'm saying that the presence of the manager is one of the major things).
    But I had to avoid the "mountain", so I open later the game and saw that result - lol
    Understanding role of Luck in top eleven-cup-1st-game-2.jpg
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  8. #48
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    As I wrote in another thread (this season my league is full of (reallife)friends):

    Understanding role of Luck in top eleven-luck.jpg

    First two friedlies against my wife. Both teams were full rested/moraled in both games. Both times it was exacty the same formation/tactic. We didn't use bonusess.
    My team was ~120%, her team was ~100%. Both games were exactly the same. If wee just know... this is a computergenerate game, how is it possible to get to different results?

    Second were her brother (also ~100%). I lost both friendlies (both full rested/moraled), no tactic/formation change, but we used bonuses. But I won League games clearly. How and why?

    There have to be a randomfactor - but how we should manage teams without this frustrating impact?

  9. #49
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    Of course there's a random factor. Do you think that if you put (for example) Manchester United and Leicester City against each other several times the result would be the same every time?
    Any formation or tactics advice given is based purely on experience with my teams...


  10. #50
    Famous nash123's Avatar
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    Of course not, but talk about real life. There you work every day with your team, you see players at trainings. You see the whole game and can concluse what's good, what's, bad. In real life, there aren't in the end of the every season playersells to get better CL- and Cupdraw. If you wanna talk about realisitc, don't talk about t11.

    T11 calculates just numbers to create a result. We can't see, what our team does. And if you use livegame... I never would put a ST on the field, who stands alone in front of the GK and passes back to some useless - and that's every game.
    If I make a wrong decision, it's okay to lose. But... that's because of a decision and not a random factor.

    F.E my squad performs really bad at the moment in CL:
    0:1 lost vs 30% weaker team without a manager
    0:0 vs 43% weaker team, also without a manager

    My team is exactly the same team, which won the triple last seaon (L4 manager, L8 cup). But in League, it performs really good - defeated three reallifefriends (which were on the livegames too), 37:2 on goals. How can my squad beat equal squads "easily" in League, and perform like 3.class amateurs in CL? So pls tell me, how should I go in CL? Should I use same tactic/formation as before? Or change something? Based on what?

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