Formations after UPDATE

[mikebokoyo1googlemail.com]

This update... I've lost since that every game in all formation.....

[Toxcatl]

thanks for the screenshot. On match time where mostly those ml/r play wing or middle?

my 2 mc always have ml/r positions, like; mc+ml+dml and mc+mr+dmr
I would try to see this tactic
thanks again

Ok, today I almost got ripped by a guy 12% weaker than me.
4-4-2 against my 4-3w-2w-1.
I started with normal/mixed/off everything except counter-attacks. % of completed passes was good after 10-15', so I switched to Long. Statistics at that point was slightly at my advance, but he scored with his 1st attack, and everything has changed.
I suspect he used high pressing and definitely short passes.
I switched off counters (AM told me they don't work), and set High pressing. No visible result.
At the start of the 2nd half he already had better statistics than me, except possession. I returned to low pressing, but set m2m instead, and also Short passes. I managed to score closer to the end of the game, and statistics was again slightly in my favour.


I suspected before that High pressing works good against Long passes, and m2m against Short, and I think it's true. I am not 100% sure, of course.

[pcmacdaniel]

Ok, today I almost got ripped by a guy 12% weaker than me.
4-4-2 against my 4-3w-2w-1.
I started with normal/mixed/off everything except counter-attacks. % of completed passes was good after 10-15', so I switched to Long. Statistics at that point was slightly at my advance, but he scored with his 1st attack, and everything has changed.
I suspect he used high pressing and definitely short passes.
I switched off counters (AM told me they don't work), and set High pressing. No visible result.
At the start of the 2nd half he already had better statistics than me, except possession. I returned to low pressing, but set m2m instead, and also Short passes. I managed to score closer to the end of the game, and statistics was again slightly in my favour.


I suspected before that High pressing works good against Long passes, and m2m against Short, and I think it's true. I am not 100% sure, of course.

I had a good long conversation with a top 11 friend (he isn't a forum member) about a year back about this topic. We were trying to figure out which orders played well against a different set of orders.

If orders indeed can be countered, there is one thing is certainly means. Normal mentality and mixed passing are the two stable things in the game engine. Lets apply it to your theory on a relationship between pressing and passing type. If high press works well against long passes and m2m works well against short passes, then what works best against mixed passing?

Normal and mixed consistantly get stuck in the middle, being well umm... tactically neutral. They would have to be more resistant to troll results than others order pairs if orders can indeed be countered.

[Toxcatl]

I'd like to play friendlies with someone of equal quality to test these things. I'm level 14, 113%. But can we trust friendlies?
Another option -- a better one -- is to create fresh teams of FB-friends accounts, a whole bunch, until at least two of them are on the same server. Then there will be a chance they get to the same League, so the more teams, the better. Sounds like a lot of work: emails -> FB accounts (friends) -> TE teams.
Is this manual still works?

I think I'm gonna try to do it when I return home in a few days. Honestly, it is more interesting to research this game than to play it. If someone wants to join, please do.

[Jean.Monico]

I suspected before that High pressing works good against Long passes, and m2m against Short, and I think it's true. I am not 100% sure, of course.

I gotta agree with you.
I have been testing it since 2nd half of last season. I was really sure that high pressure works better against short passes and worse against long passes. I left my team playing high pressure for all those matches and my "easier wins" were against opponents who plays long/mixed passes (where their passes rate were below 85%). Against short, I had problems.

Ofcourse, Top11 developers may have based the game maths in some real football theories. So this "high-pressure" we have here could be something related to what they call "Gegenpressure". Tactical Theory: Counter- or Gegenpressing | Spielverlagerung.com
This theory is about your whole team pressing the opponent once possession is lost (for some defined 5-10 secs) so you don't give to the opponent time to aim (and think) for a counterattack, so, on paper, it would work fine against opponents playing counterattacks and long passes.

Changing subject (but not changing it at all), did you watch yesterday's match between Gremio(BR) and Lanus(ARG) for Copa Libertadores de América final?
It was something like Gremio on 4-2-3-1, very offensive and tons of pressure, and Lanús really patient on 4-5-1V with short passes (a lot of balls gone back to the goalkeeper and he never tried a long pass). Seemed Lanús short passes worked really fine against the pressure (but Gremio won the match at the end).

[Jean.Monico]

Normal and mixed consistantly get stuck in the middle, being well umm... tactically neutral. They would have to be more resistant to troll results than others order pairs if orders can indeed be countered.

Humm. Good point. What instructions do you leave to your team when your match is scheduled in a bad time and you can't watch it?
When it happens to me, I use to leave some sort of this "neutral" instructions hehe

[Toxcatl]

I gotta agree with you.
I have been testing it since 2nd half of last season. I was really sure that high pressure works better against short passes and worse against long passes.

I'm confused, have you mixed them here? =]

[Jean.Monico]

;P
I'll make it shorter.
I thought High Pressure was good against short pass, but I was wrong. High pressure is good against long pass. That's why i agree with u ^^
(and ill test it in a match in 5 minutes. My opponent have been playing long passes his last matches. So i'll try to use high pressure on him ^^)

[pcmacdaniel]

Humm. Good point. What instructions do you leave to your team when your match is scheduled in a bad time and you can't watch it?
When it happens to me, I use to leave some sort of this "neutral" instructions hehe

depends on the opponent. The more rigid they are, the more likely I am to use orders that aren't as neutral because it's a pretty safe bet they won't be changing anything tactically.

On my server (around my level) most managers are tactically rigid and play attacking, long passes and high press. So I usually just play high press defense (Park and Drive) default. defense/flanks/mixed or long/on/high/normal/zonal/off.

But if it's an active manager that's flexible, something like normal/flanks/mixed/off/high/normal/zonal/off would be best, as it's balanced. If heavy underdog, maybe go with tactics more towards the polls, like hard attacking/defending etc... I would think if normal is most balanced, the more extreme orders would increase the odds of of an upset (or getting completely annihilated) if i'm underdog.

[pcmacdaniel]

I gotta agree with you.
I have been testing it since 2nd half of last season. I was really sure that high pressure works better against short passes and worse against long passes. I left my team playing high pressure for all those matches and my "easier wins" were against opponents who plays long/mixed passes (where their passes rate were below 85%). Against short, I had problems.

Ofcourse, Top11 developers may have based the game maths in some real football theories. So this "high-pressure" we have here could be something related to what they call "Gegenpressure". Tactical Theory: Counter- or Gegenpressing | Spielverlagerung.com
This theory is about your whole team pressing the opponent once possession is lost (for some defined 5-10 secs) so you don't give to the opponent time to aim (and think) for a counterattack, so, on paper, it would work fine against opponents playing counterattacks and long passes.

Changing subject (but not changing it at all), did you watch yesterday's match between Gremio(BR) and Lanus(ARG) for Copa Libertadores de América final?
It was something like Gremio on 4-2-3-1, very offensive and tons of pressure, and Lanús really patient on 4-5-1V with short passes (a lot of balls gone back to the goalkeeper and he never tried a long pass). Seemed Lanús short passes worked really fine against the pressure (but Gremio won the match at the end).

Just seeing this, sorry.

The Gen-Gen press can be effective in this game. I learned it from an association teammate earlier this year, and it's been great at times. I changed to it last season in my CL final when trailing 1-3. Substitution to change the system was made at the 51st minute. 20 minutes later, I had a 6-3 lead. When it works, it's absolutely amazing. It's risky though.

Some things that are important w/ the gen-gen press in this game.

1. You need the players to run it properly. Speed and Fitness seem most important. For defenders to track back and midfielders to close down passing lanes I would think.

2. It seems more vulnerable to long passes than mixed or short passes. Probably because something like a 3-1-2-3-1 gen-gen press has so many bodies in the middle that passing short is a challenge. Not entire sure though, but it seems to be eating up short passing games when I use it. By same tokens, not many bodies at the back to defend against the long passes.

It is a great system to know though since when the opponent is vulnerable to it, it can be utterly dominating.