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Thread: I need help …. Guide

  1. #1
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    I need help …. Guide

    I need help ….  Guide-alice-cheshire-cat-quote.jpg

    This is a picture from the famous book of Lewis Carroll “Alice (adventures) in wonderland”.
    And has to do with Formation’s section ?

    - Simple, when we ‘re asking help against a team we ‘re playing, we must give the info, the whole picture and what is the desirable result for us.

    - Showing the formation of our opponent it’s not enough . We must also give info about the quality of his team and from which competition is that game.

    - Playing vs a stronger opponent needs a different strategy than playing vs a same (or lower) quality team.

    - Some info for opponent are also helpful. Is he active ? Watching his games ? Playing with the same formation every time ?

    - Also what is the desirable result we want. Of course everyone wants to win but it’s not the same every time.
    A game in K.O. rounds of the Cup or CH.L. needs a different strategy. If it’s the second leg, we must focus how we ‘ll manage to pass in the next round.
    In that case we must also know the picture of the first leg.

    - In a league game, also is useful to give the ranking of your team and your opponent.

    - Every player who’s asking for advice, many times has already a plan in his mind. This is happening in real life too. So some times, if he ‘ll not convinced by some suggestions, he ‘s following the plan he had. It’s not bad to share your thoughts, how you would play that game by your own. Maybe it’s a good plan or maybe you have something wrong or forget to calculate a factor. Another friend of the forum can spot that or share an experience he had in a similar situation.

    - You can go back to other pages and find the info (formation) you want in another post. You can check and also post there (better be something interesting). If you do that, this older thread will come back in the first page (and line), so everybody can see it and answer.
    In my opinion this is better because we ‘ll have more info and feedback gathered instead of having 20 threads of how to play vs 4-4-2 or 4-4-2 ND.

    - Of course it’s good to be familiar with some expressions like ND (narrow diamond > DMC-2MC-AMC) or V (DMC-2MC-AML-AMR)
    And give some details about oppo formation. 3D can be 3 DC or DL-DC-DR (W >wide).
    4-3-3 is 4D-3MC-3ST or 4D-ML-MC-MR (wide)-3ST ?

    - One more info we must give, is about the roster of our team. If a friend from the forum give us a counter with players in positions DML-DMR and we don’t have such players (as I don’t have that kind), it’s useless.

    - What to do if the advice for a counter is to play a V formation (a 4-5-1V) ?
    If our team’s set up is playing from the middle (4-4-2 ND, 4-3-3 formations), without having wingers (AML-AMR) we must search for a plan B.
    Using a ST as a winger ? Setting a red arrow in our ML or using him as AML ? Trying to buy an new player AML –AMR ?
    Or setting our team with the formation (4-4-2 ND) we played successfully so far ?

    - Many times a counter formation is failing. There are many other factors that count too (some more important - like the quality of the teams or the presence and coaching from the managers, some less – like the victory or training bonus and of course luck).
    So we cannot expect a 90-100% success from the tactics or to reject a formation from one or two results.
    It’s not enough either to accept it or to reject it.

    - Consider a good counter formation as a plus, an advantage in your team but it’s not working like Diego Simeone when coaching Atletico Madrid.
    Maybe we set easy tackling but still one of our players can make a a hard tackling and get a yellow or red card.
    A classic advice (counter) when opponent playing with 3 DC, is to set AML + AMR ,playing from the flanks but we can see in live games that those 3 DC are marking all over the defense. My personal experience , 20-25 % in my (or friends) games, 3 DC can do an excellent job vs wingers.

    - There isn’t only one successful counter for formations. So better choose the one that fits more in your roster.

    - Orders are also important as the formation too. A good formation could be destroyed by wrong orders.

    - Remember that when we decide to use “man to man” or high pressing , our players will loose more condition (it’s a “rule” of the game).

    - When our match starts, we must give some time to see the results. Remember also that the game needs some time to do the new calculations when we ‘re changing something, so better not make many changes during a match (it’s not Basketball, when after every time-out we give different orders). If we change formations-orders up to 3-4 times, it’s ok. I avoid more than this.

    - We can read some posts saying – I need help, I ‘m playing my CH.L. or Cup game in a few hours.
    Sorry but to have as possible good answers, counters, suggestions or a conversation too, post your request much earlier.

    - Also if you see that you don’t have any answers or only 1-2 answers that didn’t convince you, post again in your thread, asking help from more forum members (“Any other suggestions ? ).

    - If you ‘re in a need and you decide to ask for help with a p.m. to another forum friend, better post your thread and send him the link, asking for him to add his opinion.

    - I, personally checking from time to time the Formations section and when I see some thread that doesn’t have any answers, I give my advice (or if sometimes there is a wrong suggestion – usually a wrong combination of orders). If I see that there are other good suggestions, I don’t making any post there.

    - Remember to give a feedback from your game and what was the formation you used. That’s a respect to the members who gave you a suggestion and also help us all to be better managers.

    - And finally don’t forget to click a “Like” to people who bother to help you (even if you don’t agree or follow their advice).
    “Like” isn’t working only as “thanks” but also working as a reminder.
    If someone log in and check his messages, he ‘ll see that “like” and gonna visit again your thread
    Also “Likes” are free of charge here

    - Feel free to add here your experience from Formations and Tactics section but respect the spirit of the thread and please don’t ask here advice for specific formations.

    Thank you
    Last edited by nikolgiorgos; 06-18-2016 at 05:55 AM.
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  2. #2
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    "Do - don't " examples

    1) here an example to understand better the picture of the first post
    "Where do you want to go ?"

    I need help ….  Guide-do-dont-1.jpg


    2)
    "Hi all
    I've notice Narrow Diamond its quite good this season anyone have seen that too.
    "
    from that thread
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...overpower.html

    There isn't such a thing.
    One formation has an advantage in a specific season
    - or disadvantage
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...g-so-well.html


    Every season we have different players, so it's also our players who make a good formation powerful or weak.

    3) Not such thing
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...le-season.html

    4) yes please
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...-get-help.html
    Last edited by nikolgiorgos; 06-20-2016 at 04:19 PM.
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  3. #3
    Super Moderator PricopGeorgeCătălin's Avatar
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    Very good tips but if only people will listen at this for sure it will make everyone life much easier
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  4. #4
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    General Tips

    I 'll continue this thread with some general tips.
    All those are from my personal experience or from other forum friends

    - Many people asking : Do you have a standard formation or you set a counter every time ?
    Many managers after they have found the right players, just using the same formation every time. Other players set a counter to opponents formation every time.
    In both cases, there is success or failure. There isn't "right" or "wrong".
    Personally I prefer to set a counter but not much different from my main formation.
    For example I usually set 4-5-1V, maybe I 'll switch it to 3-5-2V or 3-6-1V or 4-1-4-1 but I won't go for a 4-4-2 ND or 4-3-3 from the middle.

    - 4-5-1V and 4-4-2ND are two of the most popular formations of T11. Are they defending or attacking formations ?
    Both.
    Having 4 defenders in the line + a DMC as a second line, we can cover in defense, every possible formation our opponent has.
    After that, it's depending from the orders and the arrows if we want to go for attack or defense.
    Two red arrows in our DR -DL can make them performing like wingers (if they have the quality and the talent too). But if opponent has good AML- AMR, maybe we 'll have a problem in our defense by that.
    A blue arrow in our DMC can make him playing like DC, a red one can make playing more like a MC.

    So, there are two ways to set your team.
    To choose a good-suitable formation and find the right players to support it and let the other managers to figure out how they ‘ll set their teams.
    Or to have a favor formation but every time to search for a counter formation.
    For the first case, this is a useful thread.
    http://forum.topeleven.com/tutorials...ics-guide.html

    Using bonus
    https://forum.topeleven.com/formatio...6-guide-5.html

    Subs
    https://forum.topeleven.com/formatio...6-guide-5.html

    For the second case, I started a “Do it you self” post.


    I 'll keep updating
    Last edited by nikolgiorgos; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:20 PM.
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  5. #5
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    Some interesting threads for counters
    I 'll post here a collection of older, maybe interesting threads about specific formations

    4-5-1V
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...e-options.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...rs-cl-tie.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...st-choice.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...r-4-4-2-a.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...1-v-style.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...5-1v-tips.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...r-4-5-1-v.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...ifficulty.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...inst-451v.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...1-v-style.html

    4-4-2 ND (4D-1DMC- 2MC- 1AMC -1ST)
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...quarantee.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...2-diamond.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...w-diamond.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...w-diamond.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...w-diamond.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...-2-1-2-nd.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...n-diamond.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...w-diamond.html


    4-4-2 classic
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...t-4-4-2-a.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...formation.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...le-season.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...ague-help.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...t-4-4-2-a.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...r-4-4-2-a.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...erpowered.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...-any-more.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...2-classic.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...t-4-4-2-a.html

    4-3-3
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...3-counter.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/tutorials...defensive.html

    3DC-DML-DMR formations
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...3-2-3-2-a.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...3w-3w-1-a.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...-def-hexa.html

    asymmetrical
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...ge-tactic.html


    general
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...-tutorial.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...readsheet.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...ion-guide.html
    http://playpro-gr.blogspot.gr/
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...-long-mix.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/tutorials...s-tactics.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...ormations.html
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...-database.html

    old time classic (illegal formations)
    http://forum.topeleven.com/formation...ion-rules.html

    4-1-4-1 strong defense
    https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...best-ones.html

    Becks guide
    https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...ics-guide.html

    t11-fan
    https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...s-tactics.html
    Jeeves
    https://forum.topeleven.com/top-elev...tml#post467276

    tips
    https://forum.topeleven.com/formatio...-tutorial.html
    Last edited by nikolgiorgos; 07-10-2018 at 04:08 PM.
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  6. #6
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    Do it you self


    Orders

    An intro and few tips first

    If you want to have more ideas about orders, you can also search the forum like this.
    Go in the upper right corner and click the "advanced search" button.
    Go to the new page and write at keyword "offside". For the first time, you can choose the option this keyword to be only in the titles of a thread.
    Then, read the results.

    All those I ‘m writing here are from personal experience, from other players-forum members who wrote many good points and observing the game.
    Some choices are coming from real football tactics but don’t count much to that because TE is just a game, with it’s own rules and a program that follows some general programming paths.
    For example offside trap is a technique that a team must work a lot in practice to applied it with success in the field. Here in the game it’s just a click (and there isn’t any option like specific team training for example so to say that our offside trap will work with success or at least much better that opponents team because we worked at that).
    Another example : with a click we can set our high quality team from attack mod to defense. But in real football you can’t do that as a coach of Real Madrid (or the opposite as a coach of Atletico Madrid).

    Some of the orders have some scales, choices and “yes or no” option.
    Mix or normal is the “default”.
    If we choose something else, then maybe we can have an advantage if we made the right choice but maybe have a disadvantage in another point.
    Sometimes, even if we made the right choice, we see no positive result from that.
    Why ?
    “Do the right thing” vs “Nothing guarantee” .
    In most of the cases, there is an option, a choice which give us an advantage to something, so it’s good trying to find it.
    Always searching for “doing the right thing”

    “Nothing guarantee” : But why even if we did the right choice, we can’t see any result , any positive reaction from the game ?

    Some scenarios :
    - Of course maybe we made the right choice and without that, the result could be even worst.
    - An experienced player, after some seasons when getting deeper in the game, it’s very easy/simple to find the right formation and orders. So if he has a high quality team and doing all the other “right things” (present at his games, supporting, bonus) can be unbeatable but the TE logic is that the game and every match must be unpredictable (as in real football) so every manager could have his chance.
    - We made the right choices but didn’t work. So, as a good coach and player. I must watch my games, recognize when something isn’t working and try something different.
    - We made the right choices but some of our key players were in a bad day – or some of oppo had a very good day. Maybe his GK with many saves, determinate the result.
    - “Luck” always ‘ll have an important role in the game.
    One form of "luck" in TE is what I call the "Wheel of fortune".
    That means is some games, the rng (random number generator) choose to ignore some factors.
    So having a full condition or morale in a game, maybe means nothing, in other games having them low,maybe can be critical.

    How can we know if we made the right choice ?
    From the result of course.
    But before this, we must check how our game is going.
    Ball possession isn’t enough to have a clue. Some other factors can give us a wrong picture (the two managers watching or not the game, fans attendance, supporters).
    So, better watch how many shots we have in the game. Do we have more than our opponent ? How many ? usually after a successful game, we have a number of shots above 20. A good number is 25 shots in a game.
    Also we can see the other stats.
    Here I can say that with the old version, we could see the stats of the game in our main screen but with the new version, we must leave the “live” game screen and go to stats screen.
    But a useful thing in the new version, is our assistant.
    I know, some times it’s like he ‘s watching another game but many times he is giving us useful advice – specially for our orders.
    For example, he can make a comment that out long pass isn’t working so maybe try short or long.
    At that time, I go to stats screen and indeed my pass percentage is low or worst from my oppo.
    So, I switch from long to short or mix passing and I can see the result in the game.

    Team Mentality
    Defense
    Normal
    Attack.
    It depends from what result you want and what is the quality of the two teams.
    Against better teams it's wise to choose Defense/counters
    Equal >> normal or defense
    Weak >> Start with normal and check later.
    You can recognize the mentality of your opponent if observe his players, from where they start playing.
    If the are near his box, it's defense, if near your box, it's attack.
    There is a theory (rock -paper -scissors) saying that
    Attack loosing from defense
    Normal loosing from attack
    Defense loosing from normal
    but it's not accurate.

    Focus Passing : Here we must check two things. Where is opponent force (so to find the weak side and avoid the area where there are many oppo players).
    For example if oppo is playing with a 4-4-2 ND, better avoid passing from the middle.
    Also where is our advantage.
    If we set a formation from the flanks (V formations like 4-5-1V) better choose from the flanks.
    If we have also a AMC or playing with 4-4-2 , then check our oppo main force.
    If it’s 4-4-2 ND, still can play from the flanks. If it’s a 4-4-2 classic, maybe try a mix passing.
    If we have a 4-3(MC)-3ST, better play from the middle but if oppo has a 4-4-2 ND , better choose mix.

    LIVE- COACHING tips : Some times our assistant is making comments about the side. Better listen to his advice. If we ‘re playing with wingers and see that oppo DR is weaker (in quality or form from recent games) from his DL, or during the game has a low rate while our AML is playing good (active in the game, with good rate), we could choose only one side, the left one. In the old version, we can notice easier if an oppo player is active (observe the comments about his tackling).


    Pressing Style
    Low is the default
    High pressing has a double effect, in defense and attack.
    Playing vs a strong team, set your defense in his half field so he has less chances for shots and scoring.
    But makes your team vulnerable at counter attacks and long shots if he pass your defense.
    Vs weaker teams, you can create more shots but still can be vulnerable in his counter attacks in less degree.
    Zonal pressing + defense can be also a useful tactic vs weaker opponents.
    If an active oppo manager is afraid cause you are stronger, usually sets his team with defense mentality.
    With high pressing might puss him back but maybe your attackers cannot make it.
    Using defense/counters/low pressing, can "drag" his players in your half field, cut his attack and strike back vs fewer defenders.

    High pressing can cause an extra -8% (about) condition loss.
    This extra condition loss, doesn't give benefit to gaining.

    Tackling Style
    Normal - the default
    Easy - Hard
    The logic sais that Hard gives a bonus in defense but with the risk of cards (and the opposite for Easy tackling).
    But in practice you can't notice this.
    Anyway, it's a tiny effect. I have it in normal and forgot it there.

    Passing Style ..............
    Playing defense - counter
    If oppo has DMC or DML-R play mix,
    because many lines of oppo squad (attackers- midf. players - DMs) make long pass more difficult to work,
    If he isn't using DM, set long pass.
    But be careful with the comments of assistant.
    If he mention that oppo cuts out pass, switch to mix.
    Sort pass better no. Doesn't fit much with counters.
    Long pass fits vs flat formations like 4-5-1 flat, 4-3-3ST, 3-4-3 but you have lower % in passing and can cause more mistakes for both teams.
    I would say to use it wisely, more as an emergency button.

    Sort passing can be used when we 're better and want to play a tiki-taka football (like Barca), keep more the ball, loose the ball more difficult
    but has the effect we see some times, to have our ST inside the box but instead of shooting, to give the ball in a team-mate.

    We also can use short passing if we have a good result vs a strong oppo so not to give many him many chances for attack or creating counter attacks.
    Let the time rolling.

    Mix passing is neutral. Doesn't give an advantage or a penalty if we did the wrong choice.
    I start with mix and maybe later switch it.

    * Coaching :
    - We see the comments of assistant. If he mention that "oppo cuts our passes", even if we made the right choice (for example, playing defense/counter/long pass vs an opponent without DMs) , we must switch to a different style. Better mix.
    - We are watching the percentage of passing.
    If it's under 84-85, it's not very good. If it's above, it's ok.

    Marking Style
    Here we have zonal and man to man.
    Zonal is the default, the neutral one. Players defending the space.
    Man to man : Our defenders are closer to oppo attackers (mtm).
    This can prevent from counter attacks and long shots and generally giving a defense bonus but cause more condition loss.
    About -8% .
    In real football, mtm is not recommended if our players are weaker in skills than opponent.
    In TE doesn't matter as the game doesn't count individual skills, it's more the general quality of the teams and the players (exception is the mutant players - with very high white skills and very low grey skills. In that case there is a black out).

    Force counter-attacks
    Useful when combine it with defense but you can use it also with Normal mentality.
    Usually creates more shots (specially from the flanks, with two good wingers) but gives also more chances to your oppo by mistakes.

    Offside trap
    It's very difficult to see that effect in game play.
    It's not recommended if oppo has good AMs.
    Better use vs 2 or 3 ST formations, if players are not much stronger than your defenders.
    Watch out for a comment of a.m. - if says that o.t. confuses your players, remove it asap.
    Personally I use it only as another emergency button if I want to reverse a bad result (you know, hard attacking, counters, mtm, hard tackling, high pressing, all together).
    Last edited by nikolgiorgos; 09-10-2018 at 03:23 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Hey nik , here is '' FORMATİON AND TACTİCS '' thread. maybe I need help I can post. You cant share our post like your this thread!

  8. #8
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    I 'm not saying anywhere that those threads are mine.
    I just gathered some of them so someone can find easily some answers.
    If I used a tutorial or guide or advice of yours and you don't want to include them here, sorry.
    Tell me which is .
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  9. #9
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    ım only want guide, ım very unstable for I use counterattack with attacking mentality , pass styles , when ı use offside trap...

    ım trying always friendly games , but ım fail , lost . my position on league very bad , I see my opponents , much trophies...

    my thread is your 1st post btw.
    Last edited by nikolgiorgos; 09-09-2018 at 10:51 AM.

  10. #10
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackwhite View Post
    ım only want guide, ım very unstable for I use counterattack with attacking mentality , pass styles , when ı use offside trap...
    can we go in your post ?
    http://forum.topeleven.com/tutorials...tml#post420874
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