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Thread: Testing: does individual skills matter?

  1. #1
    Famous Toxcatl's Avatar
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    Testing: do individual skills matter?

    One of the main question of this game is the following: do the individual skills of a player matter or do the average values in each category play the role instead?

    After this discussion I made a desicion to test it in, you know, scientific way. This is a tricky thing though. It could be that some skills matter while other are pure cosmetic, and I don't know how to test every skill. But I have an idea how to test Fitness. It suppose to reduce Condition Loss during the game, doesn't it?

    First hypothesis:
    The higher Fitness skill, the less Condition Loss (CL).

    Second hypothesis:
    The higher average value in Physical & Mental (AvgPM), the less Condition Loss.

    Two players with the same position, same age, same quality, but different average value in Physical & Mental (AvgPM) and different Fitness should have different total Condition Loss (CL) after a several games.

    For that testing I have two Chilean señores:

    Testing: does individual skills matter?-arriagada.png

    Testing: does individual skills matter?-jimenez.png

    I also have this Polish pan to control wtf is happening. He is going to have high Fitness and high AvgPM and therefore should have low CL:

    Testing: does individual skills matter?-wieczorek.png

    Their age is different, but not that much. I don't have better candidates, so let's hope that CL is not affected by age strong enough to ruin the results.
    I am going to train the Chileans so they have equal quality, but Jiménez is going to have high Fitness and low AvgPM, while Arriagada -- low Fitness and high AvgPM. After that I am going to put all three of them on the field for 8-10 games to count and compare their total CL.

    If Jiménez will have low CL, that will mean Fitness is working individually. We won't be able to say that any skill works individually, but this theory will get some evidence by it's side.
    If Arriagada will have low CL, that will mean AvgPM matters instead of Fitness, and skills are cosmetic.
    If the Chileans will have the same CL, and Wieczorek will have low CL, that will mean... hm... both Fitness and AvgPM matter?
    If all of them will have the same CL, that will mean nothing matters. Guten Tag Herr Nietzsche! =]

    Comments? Questions? Criticism? Please, do me a favor, don't be shy.
    And stay tuned.
    Last edited by Toxcatl; 03-30-2018 at 06:41 PM.
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  2. #2
    Famous Toxcatl's Avatar
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    You don't have to read this post. It can be boring, and probably doesn't contain anything useful.

    Arriagada
    He needs as much XP in P&M as possible, but without training Fitness. Here's a table of efficiency for him. Numbers in cells are experience points (not represented here) divided by Condition Loss (in %) and multiplied by 100. In other words, divide a number by 100, and the result will be the amount of experience that skill gets for every 1% of Condition Loss.

    Testing: does individual skills matter?-arriagada.png

    Carioca is ideal. All of it's XP goes to P&M, and nothing to Fitness. Easy.

    Jiménez
    He needs Fitness, but he doesn't need any other skills in P&M. Unfortunately, there're no drills that train Fitness without training at least one another skill in P&M.

    The table for Jiménez is exactly the same.

    So I need a drill that trains no more than 2 skill in P&M, and trains Fitness effectively, and trains another skill non-effectively (to reduce amount of XP goes to P&M). Warm-up is the best choice: 50% of XP goes to Fitness, 25% to Aggression and 25% to Heading. All the rest drills are less efficient.

    If I'm going to train Arriagada with Carioca, he will get 100% XP to P&M, but Jiménez will get 75% XP to P&M! The difference is not that big. Nothing can be done here, unforunately.

    Almost all the drills are lvl 1, except Defensive (lvl 2 up to GK Training including). I am using the following schedules:
    4x GK Training + Carioca for Arriagada
    4x GK Training + Warm-up for Jiménez
    5 drills instead of 6, because this team is not lvl 17 in training, therefore I have only 5 slots open.
    Why I use GK Training you can read here.

    Let us see where it will bring me. I have ~100 green packs and about 200 tokens on this team, a lot of clicking ahead =]

    UPDATE 18.02.2017
    What I have after some training:
    Arriagada: Fitness 62%, AvgPM 64%, Quality 72%
    Jiménez: Fitness 85%, AvgPM 64%, Quality 66%

    Now I'm going to train Jiménez with Defending Crosses so he has the same quality. Why DefCross? It's the only drill I have on this team that trains no skills in P&M.

    UPDATE 19.02.2017
    Ok, I'm done for today. Tomorrow is another day.
    Arriagada: Fitness 62%, AvgPM 64%, Quality 72%
    Jiménez: Fitness 85%, AvgPM 64%, Quality 72%
    Wieczorek: Fitness 110%, AvgPM 78%, Quality 85%
    None of them is going to play in the upcoming games for the experiment purity sake.

    UPDATE 23.02.2017
    Arriagada: Fitness 62%, AvgPM 87%, Quality 80%
    Jiménez: Fitness 143%, AvgPM 81%, Quality 80%
    Wieczorek: Fitness 131%, AvgPM 89%, Quality 89%
    Arriagada is going to continue his training: Carioca, Carioca, Carioca...
    But I'm going to train Jiménez with Def Crosses: he has enough Fitness, but he needs to have less AvgPM than Arriagada at the same Quality level.
    I train Wieczorek with Stretch, but only beause I don't have Long Run, which would be a better option: 100% XP goes to AvgPM with half of it goes to Fitness. With Stretch only 33% of XP goes to Fitness.

    UPDATE 08.03.2017
    Ok, I'm back home from my business trip, and tomorrow will continue my experiments. Finally. Sorry for the delay.

    UPDATE 16.03.2017
    Testing is going well, but slow. I am playing frendlies against Mourinho, and I can't play more than one per day. I am currently playing with Low pressing and Zonal.
    Results will be ready at the end of current season.

    UPDATE 23.03.2017
    I realized I made a couple of little mistakes in the testing method. Nothing serious, and anyway it's too late to change something now, so I continue.
    Last edited by Toxcatl; 03-23-2017 at 08:47 AM.
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    Pro ibangali's Avatar
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    Good luck

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    Famous Toxcatl's Avatar
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    Nik, or any other moderator, can you please change "does" in the thread name to "do"? Because I can't.

    It should be:
    Testing: do individual skills matter?

    Thanks in advance.
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  5. #5
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    A study case i would like to see

    - I bought a nordgen f.t./ academy / recommended (all those players are nordeus generated with untouchables skills and almost equal the three categories).
    I made some training to him and he has high 6* quality (115% for example).
    He is playing as ST but doesn't score much, 1 goal every 2 or more games (we must not choose him as a F-K or penalty specialist).

    - The second season, I train him mostly in scoring-finishing skills which increased a lot.
    As a result, I can see that he 's scoring a lot now.
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  6. #6
    Famous Toxcatl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos View Post
    A study case i would like to see

    - I bought a nordgen f.t./ academy / recommended (all those players are nordeus generated with untouchables skills and almost equal the three categories).
    I made some training to him and he has high 6* quality (115% for example).
    He is playing as ST but doesn't score much, 1 goal every 2 or more games (we must not choose him as a F-K or penalty specialist).

    - The second season, I train him mostly in scoring-finishing skills which increased a lot.
    As a result, I can see that he 's scoring a lot now.
    To make a research we need to get rid of the influence of other factors.

    First of all, the team is changing, so the guy won't be playing with the same team all the time. You could not step twice into the same rivers. Maybe he didn't score because passes/crosses from AML/R were bad, but on the next season this situation will change.
    How exactly do you want to train him on the first season? Without training Shooting and Finishing? What about other Attack skills?
    His age will change. Many managers say that 18 y/o don't play with their full potential, maybe it's just a legend (I haven't noticed such a thing). But age may have an influence on player's performance.
    Two players would solve this problem, but, obviously, their internal programming would be different. No way either.

    In other words, we can try something like that, but I don't see how we can separate flies from the soup in this case. The results won't be trustworthy. Maybe I have an idea, but I need to think more about it.
    Last edited by Toxcatl; 02-18-2017 at 01:02 PM.
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  7. #7
    Antonio Gustavo Hernandez
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    First of all, very well work, congrats.

    As far as I have seen the scoring strikers have higher creativity, shooting and finishing abilities than other abilities of them. Additionally, fitness is also important, according to my observations, for all the players but I cannot comment on how effective it is for the performances.

  8. #8
    VIP Steppenwolf's Avatar
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    Opponent's players and their performances affect condition loss of your players... If you play 2* team, your players will lose much less condition than if you play 5* team...
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  9. #9
    Famous Toxcatl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steppenwolf View Post
    Opponent's players and their performances affect condition loss of your players... If you play 2* team, your players will lose much less condition than if you play 5* team...
    Yes, of course! I know that. That's why I need to put them on the field simultaniously, all three of them, and make them play for a several games.
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  10. #10
    Famous Cloverfield's Avatar
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    It is a good test althougn it will need many samples to consider it a proof (either way)

    I guess through friendlies will be the best to check this, sticking to one opponent , same counter formation same tactics both ways etc. So you exclude the oppo factor.

    Just a small check i had. I power trained with same drills simultaneously 3 defenders.
    I was expecting that the one with higher condition skills would be affected less by training
    This did not happen so I stopped bothering .

    Looking forward to your outcome good luck
    Toxcatl likes this.
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