Training mini guide and tips - The day after

[khris]

Ok, but what I meant is as follows. Suppose you had a DC with attacking and defending skills in the same level (same star, for example 81-98%). Way back if he was trained with attacking drills, the progress was slower as compared to defensive drills (or maybe I am wrong). Nowadays, if a player like him is trained with attacking drills (pass, go shoot), will the gain in an attacking skill, for example shooting, be same per condition loss compared to the gain of defending skills, for example marking, had defending drills (for example, hold the line) been used instead?

The system was changed, time ago the main star regulated the XP win of all skills, so once a player won a star, the XP win in training -training speed- decreased a 15% aprox. ,but once the mutants appeared and many stuffs happened, like 1500% players, or many managers training mutants till 340% ..there was a update, that changed the source that regulates the Training Speed, and now are the own skills, individualy what regulates it's own XP gaining. So the Higher is a skill, like speed, tackling etc. the less XP wins and is like the whole player have that AvQ.

7* speed = 7* player ashard as it was time ago to train.

[khris]

Said that, Khris don't like absolutely anything that has been done in the last 2 years. lol

[Tactician]

The system was changed, time ago the main star regulated the XP win of all skills, so once a player won a star, the XP win in training -training speed- decreased a 15% aprox. ,but once the mutants appeared and many stuffs happened, like 1500% players, or many managers training mutants till 340% ..there was a update, that changed the source that regulates the Training Speed, and now are the own skills, individualy what regulates it's own XP gaining. So the Higher is a skill, like speed, tackling etc. the less XP wins and is like the whole player have that AvQ.

7* speed = 7* player ashard as it was time ago to train.

Take a player having the following profile for example.
DC
Overall Quality: 95% (5 stars)
Marking: 110% (6 stars)
Finishing 83% (5 stars)

Way back, if this player was trained with the Hold The Line drill, the factor affecting progress was the overall quality (which is 95% here) like you said. Using the Fast Counter-Attacks drill, the gain per condition loss will be less for Finishing than the gain for Marking when the Press The Play drill was used because training for Finishing takes into account the grey skill factor.

Nowadays, it is the level of the skill that is the factor (110% vs. 83%). So, it is expected that the gain per condition loss for Finishing will be higher than that of Marking. But what happened to the grey skill factor? Is there such a factor nowdays or the gain between white and grey skills are the same if their quality are in the same level? Take the case of a DC with 90% Marking and 90% Finishing. Is the gain same for both if the appropriate defending and attacking drills are used? If the grey skill factor is still present, then it is expected that the grey skill will still makes less gains per condition loss. Or maybe I got that bit wrong way back and the difference between white and grey skills in terms of gain is that the white skills are given preference when a gain is to be given from a training session or match session?

(I can make tests to find out but it is not the appropriate time in the season to do it, and given that some of you probably already did some tests, maybe you can answer my question.)

[Tactician]

Said that, Khris don't like absolutely anything that has been done in the last 2 years. lol

There are negatives for sure but I have not seen any significant positive yet. If there non, then the game clearly became worst.

[Rizla]

If the drill has only grey skill yes, if the drill has mix skill,white and grey white skill will progress twice faster.

[Tactician]

If the drill has only grey skill yes, if the drill has mix skill,white and grey white skill will progress twice faster.

So, in a mixed drill, the slower to gain white skills are given preference despite that the grey skills would progress faster based on level comparison. The current training system might be poorer then as all the skills cannot be isolated, and thus targetting the grey skills only might be a problem.

[skrrr]

you have DC with marking 40% and positioning 200%. both are white skills. if you train him using hold the line both attributes train equal amount and as if they were 120%.

you have AMC with marking 40% and positioning 200%. both are grey skills. using hold the line both attributes train as 120% and gain as much as with the DC (if we ignore age, fast trainer etc.)

MR with 40% and 200%. positioning is white skill and marking grey. using hold the line the player will gain as much as the DC and AMC but the skill points are not distributed equally. the white skill will gain faster.

[Tactician]

you have DC with marking 40% and positioning 200%. both are white skills. if you train him using hold the line both attributes train equal amount and as if they were 120%.

you have AMC with marking 40% and positioning 200%. both are grey skills. using hold the line both attributes train as 120% and gain as much as with the DC (if we ignore age, fast trainer etc.)

MR with 40% and 200%. positioning is white skill and marking grey. using hold the line the player will gain as much as the DC and AMC but the skill points are not distributed equally. the white skill will gain faster.

Plausible but needs verification.

[khris]

Take a player having the following profile for example.
DC
Overall Quality: 95% (5 stars)
Marking: 110% (6 stars)
Finishing 83% (5 stars)

Way back, if this player was trained with the Hold The Line drill, the factor affecting progress was the overall quality (which is 95% here) like you said. Using the Fast Counter-Attacks drill, the gain per condition loss will be less for Finishing than the gain for Marking when the Press The Play drill was used because training for Finishing takes into account the grey skill factor.

Nowadays, it is the level of the skill that is the factor (110% vs. 83%). So, it is expected that the gain per condition loss for Finishing will be higher than that of Marking. But what happened to the grey skill factor? Is there such a factor nowdays or the gain between white and grey skills are the same if their quality are in the same level? Take the case of a DC with 90% Marking and 90% Finishing. Is the gain same for both if the appropriate defending and attacking drills are used? If the grey skill factor is still present, then it is expected that the grey skill will still makes less gains per condition loss. Or maybe I got that bit wrong way back and the difference between white and grey skills in terms of gain is that the white skills are given preference when a gain is to be given from a training session or match session?

(I can make tests to find out but it is not the appropriate time in the season to do it, and given that some of you probably already did some tests, maybe you can answer my question.)

White skills, win x2 XP ^^ double gain, being auto-regulated

[nikolgiorgos]

@ Tactician I will explain how I play the game.
Starting from the fundamentals :
I want to avoid the +1 LV opponents in Cup and CL/SL and the tankers in my League too.
So the last day of the season, I ensure to finish with a team with less than 90-100% quality (of the best 14 players).
So I keep 8-9 high quality players + some low quality to drop the avg.
My high quality players start the new season from about 100% q and finish the season with about 120% quality.
For players like those, 75 greens per season are enough, so we can get for free this amount of greens (and more) if we are consistent managers.
I keep those players for about 6-7 seasons.
A player, ft, has two periods.
First period where he achieves the max training is 18-21. The next is from 22 to 23-24. Above that I don't keep players except in a case of a super scorer when we go to create some scoring records and legendary players.
So when my player becomes 23-24 y.o. I sell him and buy a younger one for the next seasons to replace him.
Usually I add an extra position and sa but we consider the extra amount of greens for that, divided with the seasons we use our player.
6-7 seasons make better the investment.
I 'm trying to have at least one header and D.wall in defense and a f-k specialist for attack (so trying to have 2 players with those sa).

Examples from my team this season :
Time to say goodbye to NESTA.


I replaced NESTA with MALDINI (more details here #897 https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...ainers-90.html )



After adding two positions at MALDINI (using attacking drills) , I started some power training with defending drills.
For example 4XPress the play + Use your head + Defending crosses , also some M&P drills for white skills.
When his defending/white skills reach +130 %, I stop the power training and let him earning the rest from games participation.
For the next 2-3 seasons I do the same at the beginning of the season.
After those seasons, my player has high defending white skills and at the age of 22 he 's loosing some gaining ability (about -20,25% from previous period).
So at that point, I 'm starting the power training at his grey attacking low skills.
So this season, I started power training for NESTA with drills that have his low white skills (Dribbling, Shooting, Finishing and some low white like Strength or Creativity).
With those drills NESTA could earn +4% skills even if he was "old" . So increased his general quality and finish another one season with a 115% quality.
The same I will do with MALDINI. to keep him for the next 6-7 seasons.
General quality matters for sure in game calculations but we don't know if the high white skills matter as the old days.
From my personal experience, a player (attacker or defender) with 150% white skills is capable enough.
No need to go for a balance of 200%-20%.

The same with attackers.
Last season for IBRAHIMOVIC (a short version of this great player - 1.69 height )


replaced from INZAGHI.


A problem can be with midfield players like RIVALDO.
He hasn't low % skills so to use the relative drills and get some good training.
In that case, I will spend more than the attackers and defenders to keep him from 100% to 120% for the next 3 seasons.
But it's worthy. It's a great coaching tool.


So yes, white skills gain more than greys but only in the beginning (also players earn white skills from the games and the motm title).
But later it's more worthy to invest at low % greys.