Pros and cons in power training

[nash123]

Nik, nice first try.

I think: You need (very) hard drills, because Teixeira was a 6* player. My test was with 5* (98%) 18.y.o "good" fast trainer. I also think, worldclass GK-Training makes a difference.
That's the reason, why I said, I'll try it next season on my own attackers, because they will be AFTER reset at 110%-120%.
My ST, 22 y.o. made at the beginning of this season only 25-45 points at old training (he was at 111%), but he gained nearly every training 3-5% until was 120%. After that, it slowed down to 1-3% per training. Now he is 138% without any powertraining, just my daily training and the games. I don't use greenpacks often, except less time between two games or a hard competition. I manage, that I'm at the moment on +50 greens (compared to season start), but I'm out of the cup at playoffs.

My T11-team gained since the beginning of the season ~30%. I have a few players on 8* now (140%, best is 145% <- this one made only 5% over the last 17 days), but at 8*, they gain nearly nothing. They only gain 1-2% on a (very) hard pro/worldclass 6-drill-training. This is the expensive.



I give you an example about a normal day:

I wake up at 6.00-7.00am, team is ~85-99%, make my first and second training. Play first game, check the upcoming opponent. If he's weak,inactive,... I make another trainingsession with all player. If he is strong, managed,... I just make the training for subs. After second match, I check the time of the next game and the % of my players. If they will be full rested before 6.00-7.00am of the next day, they will be trained before I go to sleep.

My morning session: warm-up, stretch (or carioca with ladders), pass go and shoot (or 1on1 finishing), skilldrill, piggy in the middle, use your head (or video analysis).

My "normal" session for attackers: 1on1 finishing, GK Training, shooting technique, fast counter attacks, slalom dribble, set-piece delivery (sometimes I put "press the play" in)
First two drills are always the same. Following four drill I change and mix up.

My "normal" session for defenders: video analysis, GK Training, press the play, fast counter attacks, stop the attacker, hold the line
Also first two drills are always the same, others are mixed up.

My "late night" session is an easy training, always with long run at last drill.


Maybe this help. I'll post the results of my test next week.

[nikolgiorgos]

I think: You need (very) hard drills, because Teixeira was a 6* player. My test was with 5* (98%) 18.y.o "good" fast trainer.

The main question isn't "how fast can I develop my player" but "How can I use less greens to develop my player".
So, it doesn't matter if I used easy or hard drills but how many greens I spent comparing with the old version, for the same development of this player.

I also think, worldclass GK-Training makes a difference.

without doing any tests, I also believe that the new training improves more the GKs with those special drills.

[nash123]

Sry for the late post, but I was on holiday with my family. I also took only one screenshot, because I hadn't that time, to make it detailed.


As I said, I tested it on my own:

I put all my offensive players and my GK of my starting 11 together, without my oldest (and best) striker. I used a combination of that drills:
1on1 finishing, fast counter attacks, shooting technique, set-piece delivery, slalom dribble, wingplay, GK Training, Sprint and Gym (Phycals aren't worldclass drill).

BUT 1on1 finish and GK-Training were always the first two drill.

All players below 120% (worst was 112%) reached very fast 120%. They gained around 7-11% each session. After reaching 120%, they gained less than before, around 4-8% each session (you can take a look at the screenshot). I pushed all my offensive players to 132%-135%.

But now to my ST: he is 24 y.o. and NOT a Fast Trainer. I used same drills, but trained him alone. At old version, he only gaind 1 skillpoint with an usage of around 4 packs (made 5 points) at 118%. To push him to 132%, it would needed ~70 points -> 280 green packs (without any progression) and maybe some red packs.
I pushed him only to 132%, because after reaching 130% he gained nearly nothing. Now he is only at 135%, he played all games, made the same sessions like the rest of my T11. F.E. Costa was pushed to 135%, he is now 143%.
It costs "only" 187 Green Packs. Maybe... and that's only an idea: He has only one position. So he has less keyattributes than others and the difference between non- and keyattributes are high. Maybe he need this low amount of greens, because he didn't need to train all his attributes like the old version.

Next season, I'll try it with Costa.

Btw: I didn't use any greens at the moment, I just collect them for the beginning of the upcoming season. I will earn with a perfect season 706 greens (52 games, 36 hall, 28 gift, 560 video, 20 FA)

[Al Svanberg]

Nash, great stuff!

BTW, is it your experience that very hard practices are better than easier practices in terms of gain/condition loss?

I've not done any researches, but that notion has popped up for me from just observing the results, but I don't know.

Also have you understood how the grey/non-grey ability works? It is obvious that a player practices much worse on grey abilities -- but is the overall result worse? Like let's say you do sprints with a wing-back, dribbling is a grey ability. Will the wing back get worse result than like a DML/ML/AML who have no grey abilities?

[nash123]

Nash, great stuff!

BTW, is it your experience that very hard practices are better than easier practices in terms of gain/condition loss?

Ahm... I think, condition loss depents (on new training) on the fitnesslevel - one of my defenders (180% fitness) lost a lot less condition on 20% drills in comparision to old training pratice match.
old training: ~18%
new training: ~12%

If your player is below 120%, I think, it doesn't matter, what kind of drills you use. You only check, that you don't use drills with more than two times the same attribute: f.e.: skill drill, 1on1 finishing and stop the attacker/slalom dribble/sprint do have all "dribbling", so I just try to use only 1on1 finishing and slalom dribble on one session.
If the player is above 120%, my experience says, that's better to use a hard session (should be 15% or more) for better %-condition loss-ratio.

Also have you understood how the grey/non-grey ability works? It is obvious that a player practices much worse on grey abilities -- but is the overall result worse? Like let's say you do sprints with a wing-back, dribbling is a grey ability. Will the wing back get worse result than like a DML/ML/AML who have no grey abilities?

First, I don't think, that players performance is worse, if he has, let's say, no % in fitness like my ST. Only thing is, he lost more condition than other players during a match.

Second, I have to say yes. Let's take my ST for an example: If I make a session with only one drill, I use "press the play". I need around 6 or more session, that he gain 1% in bravery, marking,...
If I do the same with "pass, go and shoot!", he will gain at least every second session 1% or more, because he can use speed, passing and shooting.

But... my ST will need more sessions, because he isn't a fast trainer, 24 y.o. and 135%. This all are things, that slow down his gaining.

[Al Svanberg]

Nash- Thanks!

Darn, this is more complicated than I imagined. I have noticed that a player's loss in cnd differs from session to session (like if you repeat the same session the cnd loss differs from time to time), but I guessed that was dependent on gain. Like you know the gain builds up, sometime you get 1 per cent to one ability, another time 6 per cent. I just guessed that the cnd loss was tied to the percentage gain. But I have not noticed that the conditional loss differed between players. I will need to look into this much closer!

[nikolgiorgos]

Those are "rules" from the old version training.
- there is a "roll dice" in training too.
A player (fast trainer) in old version can gain from 80% to 120% with the exact same conditions.
That's a big difference.

- The performance in gaining affects the condition loss too.
If the gaining is big, there is a a bigger condition loss too.
If it's small, there is less condition loss.

The same thing is in new version too (but I think with not so big variety - not sure).

[nash123]

Here's something interesting (a friend told me, to set language to german):



If it's true, that one skillpoint is 4% at new system, it's clear, why they need at new version less greens -> look at post #63, Costa gained 7% at (I think, it was around) 128%... that's nearly two skillpoint at old version. I powertrained players incl. season 5 (now I'm 7) at old version, and they never gained at this quality more than 100 with only one pratice match.

[Al Svanberg]

Nash- This is an update by Nordeus. In Swedish, before it just said that one of my players got a skill point, now it says its 4%.

At least if I remember correctly... Wouldn't be surprised if it comes in English (?) soon?

I was wondering, if you get a skill point as a gift and go to the old version, is it possible to manually assign it to a certain player? I tired but couldn't see that it could be done.

[nash123]

Nash- This is an update by Nordeus. In Swedish, before it just said that one of my players got a skill point, now it says its 4%.

That's right. I just want to show: 1skillpoint = 4%. Now... we know the conversion ratio.

If one player made at 128% qualitiy 7% = 1,75 skillpoint -> 175 points with just one practice match aren't possible at old training with that playerquality.
So, I think, that's the reason, why we need less green with new (worldclass) drills.